Talk me out of buying RE-71R's for track days

In the hopes of tracks opening soon, I'm starting to shop for track day tires.  I'm in the process of rehabbing a somewhat tired NA6 Spec Miata, which I'm keeping compliant to SCCA/NASA spec although this season I just plan to run track days.  It came to me on stock Miata 15x6 wheels with 9 year old Azenis RT-615k's, which are useful for getting the car to the track on the tow dolly and doing donuts in the parking lot, but not much else.

I just ordered some new MOMO Podium 15x7 wheels, and need to put some rubber on them.  I want something fast in 205/50R15 that I can push hard, but I want them to last a season (1-2 track days per month) and I don't want to mess with separate rain wheels.   My past experience with RE-71's has been decent... they don't last super long and they mush out on hot days, but overall they grip well and they're great in the rain.

There are three interesting new options this year in 205/50R15.  Advan A052, Azenis RT660, and Eagle F1 Supercar R3.  The GRM thread leads me to believe that the RT660 is better suited to autocross than track.  Any reason to consider the A052 or the Supercar as an alternative to the RE-71R for this application?

For flogging around the track I like SM-7 take offs.  You can buy them for $250 a set and they'll last as long or longer than RE-71s.

RE71s are good for about 12 hours on a LeMons Miata, so maybe 6 trackdays?  R-S4s are the better choice if there is no stopwatch or prize money.

See here:  https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/200tw-tire-test-valino-and-yokohama-take-favorites/

My experience mirrors that of red stapler. We run RS4s on all of our lemons cars. 

Supercar 3Rs are considered downright suicidal in the rain in ZL1 circles.  Fantastic in the dry, though short lived.   But that data is with 3800lbs/650hp.

I have a set of Conti ECS that I use for rain with our Miata, which are fantastic.   Toyo RR in the dry.  Also had pretty good results with NT01s in the dry.  I've never tried to use one tire for both wet/dry, but we don't get a lot of wet here in AZ.

given what you said your looking to get out of them, I see no reason to talk you out of them. 

I would honestly go with the RT615+ or Direzza Z3. Possibly even the r888r. All will have MUCH better longevity and lifespan at the expense of absolute peak grip levels.

Do they make NT01s in your size? Given you have a dedicated set of wheels, those are my absolute GOTO for track days. Can NOT wear them out. Also didnt check if Maxxis RC1s come in your size but they wear like iron and should have similar lap times of NT01s and RE71R. 

Direzza if you need wet performance but the others if dry performance is your biggest need.

71r is a fast tire but just doesnt have the longevity for HPDE where you arent searching for trophies.

In reply to KyAllroad (Jeremy) (Forum Supporter) :

I'm all about the SM-7 takeoffs. What's the best place to buy them?

In reply to ShinnyGroove :

John Burget race tires......or make friends with SM racers.

I've had good luck with RT615K+ for track days. They're a little off the pace of the other offerings but the price point is right, they wear well, and they're track day tires.

Olemiss540 said:

I would honestly go with the RT615+ or Direzza Z3. Possibly even the r888r. All will have MUCH better longevity and lifespan at the expense of absolute peak grip levels.

Do they make NT01s in your size? Given you have a dedicated set of wheels, those are my absolute GOTO for track days. Can NOT wear them out. Also didnt check if Maxxis RC1s come in your size but they wear like iron and should have similar lap times of NT01s and RE71R. 

Direzza if you need wet performance but the others if dry performance is your biggest need.

71r is a fast tire but just doesnt have the longevity for HPDE where you arent searching for trophies.

I think rs4 fits nicely right in the middle of all of these choices.  

Last forever, decent in the rain, and faster then some of the tires listed.  

Depending on ambient temperature where you are are the biggest factor in how long your 71s will last.  My first set on my spec-now-track miata lasted probably about 24ish hours of use.  My second set only lasted about 12.  They were doing great until I had a 3-hour day in 100ish degrees.  Then they were trashed.  I ended up switching to RS-4s red_stapler and sonic.

I had RS4'S on my m3 that I did a few track days with.  I was very happy with them.

It sounds to me like you want Toyo RA1s.

Rodan said:

Supercar 3Rs are considered downright suicidal in the rain in ZL1 circles.  Fantastic in the dry, though short lived.   But that data is with 3800lbs/650hp.

I have a set of Conti ECS that I use for rain with our Miata, which are fantastic.   Toyo RR in the dry.  Also had pretty good results with NT01s in the dry.  I've never tried to use one tire for both wet/dry, but we don't get a lot of wet here in AZ.

The Supercar 3 and 3R are different tires. The SC3 has much better wet manners, and treadlife than the 3R. I would expect it to have better wear characteristics on track than the other tires you've listed.

Another vote for the NT01s. Pretty grippy and last fairly long.

615k+ are what your looking for. 

In reply to Professor_Brap (Forum Supporter) :

If this is what you really want, buy them now becuase that line is discontinued. The RT660 has replaced it.

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

It sounds to me like you want Toyo RA1s.

 

Totally. The RA1 is an excellent tire and a really good match to the NA chassis. A bit old-school and more expensive than they used to be, but they work as well as ever. The NT01 is basically the same tire with less rubber on it IIRC, but the RA1 is for the wet.

Other than that, I'd just ape whatever the Lemons enduro racers are running. Personally, I use the RR but I have an outlier power/weight ratio.

If you don't want to mess with separate rain wheels as mentioned in the first post, then the SM7 takeoffs are not for you.  Fine and addicting in the dry until they heat cycle out but way too exciting in the rain which is why racers have a set of rains. That said as mentioned John Berget (JB Racing Tires in Delevan, WI) is a great source for SM7 takeoffs.  

collinskl1 said:

The Supercar 3 and 3R are different tires. The SC3 has much better wet manners, and treadlife than the 3R. I would expect it to have better wear characteristics on track than the other tires you've listed.

OP said Supercar "R3", so I interpreted that as he was looking at the 3R.  The SC3 is better in the rain, but still not something I would choose for wet running.  Numerous reports of hydroplaning at low speeds on the Camaro forums, though not suicidal like the 3Rs in the rain.  On track they have dry grip on par with most of the 200TW class.  I can't speak to longevity, as our set got swapped out early after running over some debris on track that cut two of them.

+3 on the John Berget. I got tires from him for 15 years before I went to buying new Hoosiers for the Datsun.

collinskl1 said:

In reply to Professor_Brap (Forum Supporter) :

If this is what you really want, buy them now becuase that line is discontinued. The RT660 has replaced it.

That's quite disappointing to me. 

Rodan said:

collinskl1 said:

The Supercar 3 and 3R are different tires. The SC3 has much better wet manners, and treadlife than the 3R. I would expect it to have better wear characteristics on track than the other tires you've listed.

OP said Supercar "R3", so I interpreted that as he was looking at the 3R.  The SC3 is better in the rain, but still not something I would choose for wet running.  Numerous reports of hydroplaning at low speeds on the Camaro forums, though not suicidal like the 3Rs in the rain.  On track they have dry grip on par with most of the 200TW class.  I can't speak to longevity, as our set got swapped out early after running over some debris on track that cut two of them.

Yes, I meant the 3R.  They just showed up recently on TireRack in 205/50R15.  Sounds like it's not my tire though.

Professor_Brap (Forum Supporter) said:

615k+ are what your looking for. 

After much consideration, I decided on my course of action.  I ordered some take-off SM7's from Ebay for my new 15x8 wheels.  I'm also going to order some RT615k+ for the stock 14x6 wheels that are on the car, since they're the only performance tire available in 195/60R14.  That way I have nice weather and rain covered, and I can use the 615's on the rear wheels for towing with my dolly.  It's a bummer to hear that they're discontinuing the 615k's though.