Targa Newfoundland questions and answers

Adrian asked this question in another thread, and it's the sort of thing I get asked fairly often. So I figured I'd start a new topic so the info is easy to find. If anyone's got questions (or answers), chime in.

Adrian_Thompson wrote: Let's say you have a decent car, ready to go. No prep needed. What are approx costs and time to get there and do the event? IS there much difference between the Targa class and the TSD Class?

Costs
The biggest single cost is the entry fee. It's about $5-6k, depending on how early you sign up. But on top of that, you'll need food and lodging for the whole week for you and your crew. There's a travel agency that will take care of the latter for you, or you can DIY and save a few bucks. One problem with the latter is that there aren't a lot of hotels in some of the areas, and the agency fills them up quickly. You can find yourself staying in nice little B&Bs that are 45 minutes away from the start, as our Alfa friends did in 2008. Very nice, but they're long days and that extra 45 minutes could be a killer. You'll also have to get over to the island, and that means a long ferry ride.

Hotels and ferry (pickup and a one-car trailer) came to $5200 Cdn in 2008 through the agency. Then you'll need fuel for the race car as well as the support vehicle. So let's call a reasonable budget to be $12k for a minimum, assuming you run a similar team to our 2008 run. Sounds expensive and it is - but compare it to running something like a typical 4 hour enduro race. Five times.

Time to get there depends on where you're coming from, of course Google Maps is your friend. Coming from Colorado, it was about a 4-5 day trip to the hotel in St. Johns, leaving time for anything to go wrong. The event has been compressed a bit for 2014, with registration on Sunday and the awards on Friday. The transits are shorter this year as well, which is nice.

Targa versus Grand Touring (TSD)
Targa competitors do have a tendency to look down on GT because of the speeds. There is a dramatic difference. On a stage where the Open or Modern Targa competitors have to average at least 130 kmh to avoid penalties, the GT competitors might have an 80-90 kmh average they have to hit depending on the road. There's no penalty for coming in early on Targa class, but there is on GT along with secret interim time checks. The Targa times are set to be difficult or impossible to hit, GT times are for testing precision. The safety gear reflects this, Targa-class cars are full-on racers with cages, GT class can be run in a rental car. The cars do run the exact same stages with the same pace notes, the only difference is the speeds.

So, in Targa class you're constantly balancing risk vs speed. It's a rush. You need to go fast enough to meet the minimum time, but there's no benefit to going faster. On some stages, it's not too hard to meet and you can dial things back a bit. On others, it might be pretty much impossible so you have to be at full attack - this is more likely as the week goes on and the required speeds ratchet up. But you can't afford to go off or break. So there's more strategy than just "as fast as possible". In 2011, there was a Subaru running about the same speed as we were - but he'd have a near-accident about once per stage which of course slowed him down as he collected everything up and found the course again. And finally one of them wasn't just a near accident, and that was the end of his race.

That doesn't mean GT is easy, though. The demands on the driver are much lower (unless the team screws up), but the demands on the navigator are different. A Targa navigator has to be dead-nuts precise and clear in their instructions, as the driver has to trust those pace notes 100% at high speed. A GT navigator has more time to deliver the instructions, but at the same time they're having to monitor the car's speed, timing and deal with mid-stage average speed changes. There's more prep work involved and it's mathematically more taxing. Definitely not the easy cruise option, the team is working hard. If I were going to enter the GT class, I'd bring a slow car so I could drive the wheels off it.

Here's a roadside view of our two cars in 2011, GT and Targa. A little secret from the Racing the Rock film - we sped up the GT footage by 20% Not here though. I had fresh tires on the back that hadn't been scrubbed in enough yet, thus the antics of the V8 car... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1qKxXZRvYm0

There's also the "Fast Tour" group, which is basically a chance to run through the closed stage ahead of the competitors. Safety gear is minimal and there's a pace car to control speed, but from what I've seen it's not controlling much. This is where the event is flirting with disaster, IMHO, and this is the class that put the Enzo into the water in 2011.

Running GT class in rental Yaris while not seriously competing sounds like a great way to have fun and save on car building & transport costs

Wow, once sticker shock has worn off on $12k minimum I guess that's not too out of touch. If you consider that's an average of $2.4k per day, people spend that on being part of a chump car team. GT class is appealing to me, but not practical.

Thanks for doing this! The Targa Newfoundland is on my list within 2-3 years of sorting out my car and it's a pretty serious mystery to me.

How rough are the roads? Is it possible to do it in a track car with a bit of aero (not scraping the ground but with a good splitter and reasonably low), without breaking anything? I intend to take it very easy in terms of risk but at the same time I want to have fun.

Pace notes and navigation... please MOAR ON THIS!!! Anything you can share. This is probably the biggest mystery to me. Where do the pace notes come from and what's the format? If they're time based, then how does the navigator know? Do you ever get to dry-run the stages? Does the event provide you with some timing equipment of some kind?

How does the transport work? I mean, after each stage, do you come back to some home base? I will be bringing a towtruck and trailer. If the rally doesn't come back any one place for the night, would be nice to leave the trailer somewhere and have the truck follow along in support.

BigD wrote: How rough are the roads? Is it possible to do it in a track car with a bit of aero (not scraping the ground but with a good splitter and reasonably low),

I'd guess so:

The roads were atrocious in 2008. Like "I really don't want to punish my car any more" bad. Then a few hurricanes took out a number of roads, and the replacements are much better.

Now, this is based on the 2008 and 2011 courses. For 2014, they've cut out a big chunk of the stages and added some new ones, and I'm not 100% sure what the roads are like on them. Some of the rougher high-speed ones were in the old area. Like this one - if your car can do this, you can probably handle any stage. It starts off smooth and fast, dodges into a tight, rough town, then back into a high speed section that's rough (about 4 minutes in). You can actually hear my navigator laugh when she reads off a pace note that warns of a rough road.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SFMp4-3rUQs

I'd go a bit taller than track spec for suspension. You'll want some compliance for sure, and skid plates are a good plan. I have some UHMW pads on the bottom of my car in impact points so I don't damage anything if I do ground out as well as a skid plate on my oil pan. The M3 in our class in 2011 almost got taken out from oil pan damage, there's a picture of them grounding out the pan mid-corner and I have at least an inch of clearance in the same place. For reference, I ran 550/400 spring rates in the Targa and I run 750/450 on the track. Ride height is something like 2" taller for the rally. That worked well.

Pace notes are supplied by the organizers. You can see an annotated version here: http://targamiata.com/images_lrg/Brigus.pdf
Now, this set is from 2008 when the Modern class was handicapped. Only Classic division gets that handicapping now, so when you're looking at the base times you'd consider any Modern car the same as Open. But other than that, it's still accurate.

You can pre-run the stages, as they're on public roads. But you can't pre-run them at speed, and there is absolutely no time to do so during the event. So that's an advantage to those who live nearby or who want to show up a week early and start the week exhausted I never have. You have to provide your own timing equipment, which in Targa class usually consists of a rally computer. They show average speed, time, speed and a whole range of other calculations. On mine, I can enter in the desired average speed and it will display how far ahead or behind I am in terms of time. For example, if I cross the line with it reading -5, that means I finished 5 seconds before the minimum time. If I'm partway through a stage and it's showing +10, it's time to get moving. A GT class car would be aiming for 0 all the time, Targa guys don't care as long as they're showing a negative number.

The rally moves around. You drive from stage to stage, and the overnight moves a couple of times. The organizers provide trailer storage if you'd like, that's what I do. You are not allowed to trailer the car during the event.

Newfoundland gets tough winters, so you can expect the roads to be beat up in places. Freeze/thaw cycles are more common down near St. Johns, but that is also where more of the population is, so the roads may be better taken care of.

Our roads suffer the same fates, so you can get frost heaves (think natures speed bumps!). As Keith noted, getting an extra couple of inches of ride height would be a good idea.

BigD wrote: Pace notes and navigation... please MOAR ON THIS!!! Anything you can share.

I suggest this: http://www.flyinmiata.com/index.php?deptid=5687&parentid=0&stocknumber=98-10910

Which covers a number of your questions as well as being a fun way to spend an evening.

Excellent suggestion!

Also available on Amazon streaming or Amazon DVD.

So Keith, is the Pikes Pike Hill Climb next for you?

I will admit to maybe looking over the regulations a bit. I'm not sure I'm man enough for it, though!

I forgot earlier - here's the video to go with that sample route book linked above.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QXKFnPziVcM

Don't forget to make sure that your navigator is able to read while moving at speed. You would be surprised how many people discover they get car sick during stage rallies. Not fun.

Maybe toss them in the dryer with a novel as a test?

We actually tried driving on track while Janel read me stories. It's actually quite illuminating how much this affects your concentration as a driver. Of course, that's much more verbose and random than the focused pace notes. But we both learned something.

We also did a TSD before the rally. It helped us identify things as mundane as uncomfortable seats and got us to use the rally computer in action.

Janel used to be quite prone to motion sickness. Turns out she was just fine during the competitive stages. This was partly because she was concentrating so hard she didn't have time to think about it. She also learned (quickly!) not to look up when navigating. Partly because the extra head movement makes her queasy, but also because it's really easy to get lost in your notes. It's tempting to double-check that the driver is doing what you told them to do, but you need to trust them. Just like the driver needs to trust that the notes will be accurate.

Here's an example of sub-optimal navigation. Janel immediately identified this as the navigator looking up after each instruction. Also, note the, umm, extended vocabulary. This is the same stage that I linked to in my previous post, and the same stage as the route book posted. These guys were just having a good time, not trying to be competitive.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gELOuFn7SkU

Gosh that looks like fun.

It was interesting to watch Keith and Janel again after watching the Alfa guys. Besides the speed difference in the cars, Janel was giving much more concise and faster info. I noticed her counting down distances - does the rally computer have an odometer as well?

As much as I would rather be driving, I'm one of those lucky people who has zero issue with reading in a moving car, so I'd probably be better as a navigator.

The rally computer is basically a highly accurate odometer and timer. I think mine's accurate to 4" or so. I have it on the front wheels so wheelspin doesn't affect the readout. It does drift a bit off the notes on long stages due to the racing line, as the notes are based on staying in the proper lane on a public road.

We can configure the displays, but we usually have it show elapsed time, current speed, distance and +/- target time. Janel was really good at delivering instructions, the guy who runs the Targa school actually commented on it two years later after seeing the videos!

The second year, Janel developed a code. If she felt I wasn't braking soon enough, you'll hear "should be there!" in the intercom. Conversely, "not there yet" means she thinks I'm being a wimp

The Alfa team didn't have a rally computer. Heck, they didn't even have any metric instruments. They spent a lot of time converting units. They had a good time, so mission accomplished.

Navigators are a special breed. They have to be very organized and prepared. They also have to have full confidence that their driver will do exactly what he's told, and they have to deliver a lot of information in a clear, concise and timely manner with 100% accuracy. GT navigators need more of the former attributes, Targa navigators the latter.

Fling Miata needs to build a full-on rally Miata (that can run on dirt) for you two to run.

Flyin' Miata didn't build this one, I did

Targa Newfoundland - Hi all and special thanks to Keith for addition of information for Targa Newfoundland! I work with Targa NL and have been invited by Joe Gearin to join the forum to assisit with additional information. I will include a brief summary of cost estimates prepared by Targa NL; as well for booking of accomidations we do have a booking partner in St. John's - Maxxim Travel; they do charge a very minimal fee for booking but the fee does generally balance out in savings. Maxxin Vacations pre-books blocks of hotel rooms all in close proximity to the scheduled legs of the Rally, rooms for duration of the Rally can be booked in a package direct through Maxxim Travel - christina@maxximvacations.com

Meal purchases for the week can be purchased in advance through the Targa Office for Competitors and Crews, as well we do offer an on-site driving school option and Competition Licensing.

Please feel free to add any additional questions or contact me for futher assistance at:

angieredpath@gmail.com

403-234-9553

www.targanewfoundland.com

Welcome Angie! I saw yesterday that Targa NL will be at the Mitty in late April as well, which is a first as far as I know.

I've never done the school myself, but one of my teammates did:
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/09/flyin-miata-at-targa-newfoundland-part-1-meet-your-classmates/
http://www.autoblog.com/2011/09/10/flyin-miata-at-targa-newfoundland-part-2-technical-difficulti/

There is (was?) a class on Saturday that was basically a navigation class. It's free to all competitors, very valuable and tragically under attended. If it's still offered, I'd recommend it to any competitor regardless of experience level.

BASIC TARGA BUDGET - 2014 Estimated Budget(CAD)- Canadian Dollars

Before Competition:

Entry fee = $5995.00 plus 13% tax

From North Sydney (ferry crossing) = approx. $500.00 (single vehicle, 2 people).

During Competition:

Accommodations = $1000.00 (arrive Friday before event; leave Saturday after event).

Fuel = $400.00

Miscellaneous expenses = $700.00

Total Estimated Cost = $ 9374.35 plus travel

Thanks Keith, and I am indeed very excited to attend the Mitty Show; I will be representing Targa NL as well as other Enthusiast Motorsport Events I represent.

The Targa Driving School and Competition Licensing are both great additions to the Targa Event but are at an additional cost to Competitors.

Stop by the Flyin' Miata booth at the Mitty, we'll have at least one car there still with Targa NL number plates and sponsor stickers on it.

The driving/licensing school was extra cost, but the navigation school by Mark Williams used to be available to all. Is it still offered, or was it dropped due to time constraints and a lack of attendance? In 2011, I think it was only the Flyin' Miata teams and the Fast Tour drivers who showed up. It was basically a one-hour classroom session and the notebook used to be available on the site as a download. It helped considerably in our comfort level when preparing.