TDI...for track days?

Among my various VW-owning friends, TDI nuts are the majority, and they insist I consider one for my next vehicle. One thing that my next vehicle must do, though, is at least be quick enough to run the occasional HPDE. I'd probably be looking at an A4 Jetta; I know out of the box, TDI's aren't exactly blazing fast. How hard is it to make one scoot around a little more quickly, though? I know I could build it to look and handle the part thanks to the massive A4 parts bin, but speed is where I draw a blank.

You could but I wouldn't. Even chipped the cars aren't fast. (To me) I have a newer 2.0 CR car with a 6 speed and it has 140hp and 236 tq and its great for DD use but pretty slow to be competitive. People on the tdi board seem to think they are faster than they are but maybe they don't have experience with lots of other cars.

Want to track a VW? Get a corrado, GTi, of Golf R IMO.

Shared a DE at Road America with a Jetta TDI a couple of years ago. Must have been chipped from the amount of soot thrown when he dropped his foot to the floor.

He was certainly having fun, but definitely ran out of breath on the long straights.

One of the vendors on tdiclub (indigobluewagon) used to track his modified wagon. His favorite story was being visited by a Spec Miata driver following a session. The guy says to him, "I was following behind you after you passed me and I realized - that's a diesel wagon... and I can't catch it..."

Obviously, this story doesn't take into account the experience levels of both drivers, but there wasn't any indication IBW was a rolling chicane... IIRC, his car was putting down around 200 hp at the time, but the mods done were extensive - injectors, chip, turbo, etc...

It seems like 140-150whp is about as far as you can go without serious mods...not terribly impressive for a ~3000lb car, but not impossibly slow either. With good suspension and a good driver, though...hmmm.

A friend is serviously considering puting one in his 2nd gen RX7 race car.He's thinking the same HP, twice the torque wih a modest weight increase. He thinks that it'll be faster (although not as much fun perhaps). I think that he's also looking at fuel costs. I wouldn't be surprised if the TDI motor's use 1/3 the gas in a track setting as the rotary.

Having a miata driver say they couldn't pass you during a DE isn't particularly impressive. Let's not forget how slow and gutless a miata is...

Never mind the engine. The suspension geometry on those Mk 4 suck for track days.

If I wanted a VW for track work, I'd look for an old SCCA ITB/C A1 or A2 Rabbit or Scirocco race car that is no longer being raced.

amg_rx7 wrote: Never mind the engine. The suspension geometry on those Mk 4 suck for track days. If I wanted a VW for track work, I'd look for an old SCCA ITB/C A1 or A2 Rabbit or Scirocco race car that is no longer being raced.

That's exactly what I did. I've done a track day with my lightly modded TDI Golf (Koni coilovers / chipped) and while fun, it runs out of breath on the straights, and you can have a lot more fun for the money if track fun is a priority. It's a great car on the street, and TDI's feel faster than they are, but when run flat out, they feel winded.

I picked up a cheap A1 former ITC car as a track car, and have a 16V to swap into that one of these days.

Now an A1 with a modded TDI swapped in...

I have to agree with the amalgamation of opinions here.. I think a near-stock TDI vehicle would not be torture to take on a DE, but the only way it's going to be thrilling is with a LOT of money/mods, OR a tdi in an earlier/lighter platform. 150whp in a 2000 lb car will feel fast.

+1 to the above. With enough time, money and motivation, you can make a track car out of a TDI. But when there are so many cars out there that are a better starting point for track work, you'd have to be a serious diesel evangelist to go down that path. Or the beneficiary of a free ex-TDI Cup car.

The few diesel cars I've driven have practically zero top end. Might be fun for an autocross, but I think it would suck on a long straight.

I've been considering it - buying a 2 door, 99-03 Golf and building a FSP Autocross/Rally-X/Hillclimb car out of it - but I'll freely admit it's as much for the 10 years of familiarity and novelty than for any practical or logical reason.

A Mk IV can be made to handle reasonably well if street comfort can be sacrificed. A side effect of this is due to the previously mentioned poor geometry, lowering the car is generally a bad idea, so what you get is a car with much stiffer springs, camber plates to help a bit, and a ride height that is as high or higher than OE, which might be a benefit for a multi-purpose AX/RX car. Custom built coilovers are basically mandatory as none of the OTS kits are really designed for anything other than show.

A chipped ALH will continue to pull hard to over 5000 rpm. My stock car falls flat at around 4K. I've talked to a guy who runs down in DC and his will rev to 6K. Additional speed can be coaxed out of the Mk IV by installed the final drive gear from a B4 Passat trans (the Passat ran a slightly smalled tire diameter, so the gearing was taller). One of my biggest complaints about autocrossing my TDI was the lack of speed in 2nd gear. Unfortunately, such a gear swap wouldn't be legal for FSP.

kreb wrote: A friend is serviously considering puting one in his 2nd gen RX7 race car.He's thinking the same HP, twice the torque wih a modest weight increase. He thinks that it'll be faster (although not as much fun perhaps). I think that he's also looking at fuel costs. I wouldn't be surprised if the TDI motor's use 1/3 the gas in a track setting as the rotary.

A lot more than a modest weight increase. I can just about pick up a 13B.

Diesels seem to be good right off the line and when your first put your foot into it, but then pretty much dies soon thereafter.

This means I can understand where they might do well on a slow autocross (more SCCA style than car club style) but not do well at an HPDE. I think they need a lot more gears to do well on track.

Off the line during the "autocrossish" stuff we did at the Road America was pretty impressive with that TDI.

It was hard to tell the stuff thrown off the tires from the soot. Waiting behind them was a real "cough, cough" event!