Teach me about Hondas

Is there a transverse motor that fit's the following criteria:

-Around 200 HP stock or easily attainable

-Easily available manual tranny

-Easy engine management tweaks via megasquirt or hacked ecu

-takes abuse well (track environment)

-Cheap

K20 would seem to be the answer. Take it from a civic Si or RSX. K24 might also work from a TSX.

B16 and b18 twin cam vtec motors can get close to there fairly easily. 5 speed manuals are reasobably stoit stock. Stock obd1 ecu's can be chipped very easily and cheaply.

H22 - The Honda Big Block

The K20A2 in the RSX Type-S is an incredible little mill. Guys are dynoing more than 230 WHEEL horsepower with bolt-ons and a tune. The big secret seems to be the right combo of intake manifold and long-tube header.

I used to be a total Honda hater but the more I read about the K-series, the more I think an RSX is going to be the base of my upcoming track car project. The H22 is also a good engine but aftermarket support is waning due to the popularity of the K-series.

J35A6 V6 in a Fit? would be a lot of fun.

A thread about that combo came up here recently, and the build that was linked to turned out nice, but there's not really any such thing as a truly cheap Fit that's not a basket case. It kinda sucks to buy a car for full pop when half of its price comes from a stock reliability factor that you fully intend to remove.

I would say 4th gen prelude motor because it'll be easier to find cheap than the right kidn of k20 and by the time you swap it into anything else, the intake and exhaust mods to make it fit will put you comfortably over the 200hp mark.

What is this going in?

Nevermind missed the transverse requirement

Everything I read about the K20A2 sounds like some sort of mystical tale told in hushed whispers by time travellers, and I'm coming from the D-series motors which were already remarkable for their time period.

It is too bad that Fits hold onto so much value, especially the GDs - I really love 'em and I want one. I looked at a few in the $5K range here before deciding on a $700 basket case EG to be my introduction to Honda ownership.

As for engine management, if you've already got a MegaSquirt going I can't imagine there' much in the way of Honda motors that aren't supported well. Maybe some of the more exotic infinite-VTEC stuff needs more tuning.

Hondata is pretty much the easy button for Honda ECU tuning. Almost everyone knows how to tune it, and they're happy to do a conservative mail order reflash if you don't want to pay for dyno time.

Kreb wrote: Is there a transverse motor that fit's the following criteria: -Around 200 HP stock or easily attainable -Easily available manual tranny -Easy engine management tweaks via megasquirt or hacked ecu -takes abuse well (track environment) -Cheap

Acura TSX K24, 200 hp right out of the box. That, or do what many Honda builders do, find a K24 block and put the RSX-S K20 head on it, which gives the best of both worlds, but as a plug-and-play solution, the TSX drivetrain is it for the power you're asking for.

The Honda K-series is the Japanese equivalent of the LS1. It's stellar.

kb58 wrote:

Kreb wrote: Is there a transverse motor that fit's the following criteria: -Around 200 HP stock or easily attainable -Easily available manual tranny -Easy engine management tweaks via megasquirt or hacked ecu -takes abuse well (track environment) -Cheap

Acura TSX K24, 200 hp right out of the box. That, or do what many Honda builders do, find a K24 block and put the RSX-S K20 head on it, which gives the best of both worlds, but as a plug-and-play solution, the TSX drivetrain is it for the power you're asking for.

Thanks everyone. The application is the SP1000 replica that we have the fiberglass for and are currently designing the chassis in solidworks for. I prefer the traditional longitudinal motor layout, but the engine bay is so short that about the only thing that will fit in that config is a Subaru motor with an Audi transaxle. The adaptation's going to be a bit of a PITA, but a ground-up build is never a picnic. I was thinking about how well the Hondas that I've owned have performed, and wondered if the Subaru/Audi combo isn't worth the trouble over an all-Honda or Ford setup. (We also have a brand-new 2.3 Duratech sitting around).

On a related note: I know how hard it is to find accurate engine weight info. Here's a good reference for Hondas: http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/transmission-drivetrain/1306-honda-engine-drivetrain-weights/

Found this in my build diary:

So what does a Honda K24A1 weigh? Engine + exhaust manifold + alternator + starter = 283 lbs. This does not include the flywheel or clutch (I have neither), nor engine mounts. The 5-speed transmission weighs 87 lbs + 10 lbs for the intermediate shaft, for a total of 381 lbs. Figure 8 lbs for an aluminum flywheel and maybe 15 lbs for the clutch, so the total is 403 lbs

The b18 from the Integra gsr is like 185hp stock and should be waaay cheaper than the k series.

Robbie wrote: The b18 from the Integra gsr is like 185hp stock and should be waaay cheaper than the k series.

On ebay the price differential doesn't seem to be so great.

Kreb wrote:

Robbie wrote: The b18 from the Integra gsr is like 185hp stock and should be waaay cheaper than the k series.

On ebay the price differential doesn't seem to be so great.

Maybe my info is 5-10 years old. At one point the b was waaay cheaper.

Kreb wrote:

kb58 wrote:

Kreb wrote: Is there a transverse motor that fit's the following criteria: -Around 200 HP stock or easily attainable -Easily available manual tranny -Easy engine management tweaks via megasquirt or hacked ecu -takes abuse well (track environment) -Cheap

Acura TSX K24, 200 hp right out of the box. That, or do what many Honda builders do, find a K24 block and put the RSX-S K20 head on it, which gives the best of both worlds, but as a plug-and-play solution, the TSX drivetrain is it for the power you're asking for.

Thanks everyone. The application is the SP1000 replica that we have the fiberglass for and are currently designing the chassis in solidworks for. I prefer the traditional longitudinal motor layout, but the engine bay is so short that about the only thing that will fit in that config is a Subaru motor with an Audi transaxle. The adaptation's going to be a bit of a PITA, but a ground-up build is never a picnic. I was thinking about how well the Hondas that I've owned have performed, and wondered if the Subaru/Audi combo isn't worth the trouble over an all-Honda or Ford setup. (We also have a brand-new 2.3 Duratech sitting around). On a related note: I know how hard it is to find accurate engine weight info. Here's a good reference for Hondas: http://www.superstreetonline.com/how-to/transmission-drivetrain/1306-honda-engine-drivetrain-weights/

YOU GOT THE SP1000 MOLDS!!!

I didn't read this closely enough the first time. I'm subscribed for more info as the updates come. I was on John's list for a body at the least and would still love to get my hands on one. I think I was like a day behind you making a decision to buy the molds.

I was going to install a bike motor in mine.

Yep that's us. Unfortunately progress is slow right now. We'll probably start a build log in the fall, once there's enough to make it interesting.

A bike motor would be badass.

http://www.festivals-and-shows.com/1965-fiat-abarth-sp1000-canam-car-body-molds-4000.html

Kreb wrote: Yep that's us. Unfortunately progress is slow right now. We'll probably start a build log in the fall, once there's enough to make it interesting. A bike motor would be badass.

For the track, definitely, but in your case it's not so simple depending how you want to run the business. If you want to take it to Cars and Coffee and stuff like that to drum up business, it's a bit more tricky. Everyone will agree the bike engine is bad-ass, but running one in a car on the street isn't very fun in traffic, never mind no reverse.

Fueled by Caffeine wrote: http://www.festivals-and-shows.com/1965-fiat-abarth-sp1000-canam-car-body-molds-4000.html

That's a very old ad. The molds have been sold twice since then and gone up in price.

A bike motor would be badass. For the track, definitely, but in your case it's not so simple depending how you want to run the business. If you want to take it to Cars and Coffee and stuff like that to drum up business, it's a bit more tricky. Everyone will agree the bike engine is bad-ass, but running one in a car on the street isn't very fun in traffic, never mind no reverse.

No pooky, kimosabe. Our first effort will be 200-250 HP and car based. But the PS1000 is tiny - think 1st gen MR2 with a little more overhang and a smaller cockpit. With a bike motor you could keep pretty close to 1000 lbs. and arguably it'd be the choice most in line with the original, high-strung Abarth vehicle. Of the sixty or so made, I'm not sure if any were actively run on the street. Those that had lights did so for endurance races typically.

FWIW, a buddy was lamenting that in his racing class, he's stuck running against cars with K20 drivetrains which are reportedly producing 285 hp reliably.

Kreb wrote: I prefer the traditional longitudinal motor layout, but the engine bay is so short that about the only thing that will fit in that config is a Subaru motor with an Audi transaxle.

Why the Audi transaxle instead of a modified Subaru transaxle, FFR 818 style?

Maybe a bike motor and a Subaru/Audi gearbox? Or look into the Radical SR3's gearbox, it's probably crazy expensive but it has reverse.

We have been proceeding with the design around the Subaru EZ30R motor. A very different creature from the Honda motor - torquey, delcious H6 sound. But it'll take more development than the Honda, and torque isn't as important when your vehicle weighs less than 3/4 ton. I seem to recall that Hondas have great interchangeability. If we set up the chassis for one of them, I imagine that you could drop just about any Honda mill right in there. From a kit perspective, that'd be simpler than a mix-and-match Subaru/Audi/custom adapter plate. Hmmm.