yamaha wrote: They seem to free up with breathing mods........I considered a 4.0L or 4.4L for the ti, but the those are salty. I'll figure out how to rwd the sho's 3.4L v8 before I go bimmer 8 in it.
3.4 V8 is a duratec bellhousing pattern. so is the 5-sp in the lincoln LS.
In reply to belteshazzar:
Good call.......finding one of those might be fun though
This is very relevant to my interests... I've got an M42 in my daily driver, and a new T28 sitting on a shelf.
If you're going to do it right, a new engine management system is a must, the stock system is only semi-sequential (i.e. fires injectors 1 & 3 at the same time). I'm planning on using a Performance Electronics PE3 for mine.
GPS was talking about running megasquirt......
I'll just hack the airmeter on mine to trim out larger injectors.....as a standalone would kill my budget. Plus I like fireballs from running rich. 
I tune the stock motronic.... 42lb injectors and a chip tune. For low boost the motronic will work....do you have as much control as a standalone...no. But it does work and we are getting good results with proper AFR readings.
The engines you see in the pictures I posted are both e30 engines, thus the reason for the e30 intake. In addition you cannot fit the e36 intake in a 2002. I have tried. I have swapped m42s in 4 2002s and one 2000. 3 manuals and 2 automatics. One turbo...then the turbo e21 of my buddies.
Nice, how big of a budget hit would the chip tune be?
Man, GTS is an arms race. How far up the pack are you, GPS? Before the engine started going, I mean..I know a tired one will put you further back than a fresh one.
In reply to jakeb:
Srly . . .what DON"T you do . . . 
Would like to know price on a chip as well. I'll shoot you a PM later.
jakeb wrote: I tune the stock motronic.... 42lb injectors and a chip tune. For low boost the motronic will work....do you have as much control as a standalone...no. But it does work and we are getting good results with proper AFR readings. The engines you see in the pictures I posted are both e30 engines, thus the reason for the e30 intake. In addition you cannot fit the e36 intake in a 2002. I have tried. I have swapped m42s in 4 2002s and one 2000. 3 manuals and 2 automatics. One turbo...then the turbo e21 of my buddies.
yes.. the e36 intake is HUGE.. if you buy a strut bar for an E36 318.. you have to get a different one from the Six cylinder cars because of it
yamaha wrote: Nice, how big of a budget hit would the chip tune be?
Not much.....I sent you a PM
Strike_Zero wrote: In reply to jakeb: Srly . . .what DON"T you do . . .
haha, not much I don't do. And if I can't I will learn. Sent you a PM about a chip tune
Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I think the turbo option is attractive for weight, balance and packaging but reading all the replies here - it's the wrong motor (and/or approach for me) because I need rock solid reliable power at a level that seems to be right at the top of the curve. I also have never turbo'd anything before so I am bound to blow it up while climbing the learning curve. I need moar powah. This was just one option to explore for how I get there from here.
I think you're taking the right approach, thinking outside the box will help you accomplish things on a budget that you'd never think were possible. I think in your case the displacement and the same-make limitations on the engine make things tough. A Ford 302 would be a great motor for your goals and can be done on the cheap, but it wouldn't comply with the rules.
Turbo cars typically require more care and feeding, and that goes doubly for turbo'd track cars. In something like time attack you can build something to sustain a couple of hot laps, but running races is a different ballgame.
Looking forward to seeing what you come up with for a plan!
How much weight would you lose by going to the 4 cyl turbo setup? Do you need as much power with the lighter car?
not only weight.. but also the placement of that weight. The Straight Six sticks out a lot further infront of the wheels than the four
Well, I know several people with turbo 2.0L engines (SR20) on track at the 300-400 whp level. At the upper end, cooling starts to be a pretty serious issue for full half hour DE sessions. Pump gas probably won't do it either. So I imagine 350whp on a 1.8L will be a little more fragile and laggy than you like, but it really depends. What's the planned fuel of choice?
I would run a Garret GTX2863 or GTX2860 to get a nice modern compressor wheel in the mix. Some compressor map plotting would be in order as these are pretty new turbos with minimal results thus far as the aftermarket world is full of 20 year olds with dreamy eyes and big pocketbooks going after the mythical "500whp" figure instead of building cars that are legitimately fun. I'd stay away from GT30xx anything, the 30R turbine doesn't seem to do well at lower boost/power levels and the NS111 GT28 wheel is a gem IMO. Lots of guys doing 300-400 whp on GT2871s, so you put on a better and significantly smaller compressor wheel and even on a smaller displacement engine, you should have a pretty nice powerband.
yamaha wrote: In reply to belteshazzar: Good call.......finding one of those might be fun though
could be worse. car-part shows two pages of results, prices from ~700 and down.
I find myself tempted by the BMW V8 route with my Ti..... I wonder if the wiring harness is as plug and play as the S52 swap is? I would imagine it would be an engine out of an OBDII E34 or E39
mad_machine wrote: I find myself tempted by the BMW V8 route with my Ti..... I wonder if the wiring harness is as plug and play as the S52 swap is? I would imagine it would be an engine out of an OBDII E34 or E39
I only see it as a good packaging plan, it is shorter. It makes less power and torque than the S54, less revs too, it does not have great aftermarket support for making a ton more power either. Not in any affordable way anyway. I'm sure lighting the rotating mass and swapping pistons, and doing cam and head work would be really beneficial but add the cost of that up and ... how much better off are you than working over the six?
My issues all stem from "It has to be BMW". If you are unencumbered by same-make class rules it is hard to ignore the el ess juan. Comparatively cheap, light, small and a deep aftermarket. There are probably 20 of them within 10 miles of your house for sale.
I don't have any personal experience with one, but the general consensus of the mini-V8 tends to be that it's not worth the metal its cast from. It's all the power of a 6 with additional weight.
GPS . . .Would a turbo 2.5 fit in the rules? Or would it have to be that 2.0L or less to go forced induction?
The 3.0L V8 would take metric tons of cash to make the HP you are looking for. With all the basic "free" & cheap mods it would be as potent as a 3.0L 6 cylinder with the normal OTS mods.
turtl631 wrote: Well, I know several people with turbo 2.0L engines (SR20) on track at the 300-400 whp level. At the upper end, cooling starts to be a pretty serious issue for full half hour DE sessions. Pump gas probably won't do it either. So I imagine 350whp on a 1.8L will be a little more fragile and laggy than you like, but it really depends. What's the planned fuel of choice?
I attended the SR20 convention a few years ago (down at Roebling Road) and was stunned at the number of engine failures at that track day (NA and FI). Some of it could be chalked up to people attending their first track day, but certainly not all. The temps were in the mid 60s to low 70s all day, sessions were 15-20 minutes, and the FI cars were struggling mightily with heat management (primarily engine oil temps). The only cars that were out there all day, session after session, were the NA ones (and the rental PT Cruiser).
That track day gave me an appreciation for how hard it is to run FI for longer sessions, let alone wheel to wheel racing.
cosider the BMW 335 and 135.. both very capable turbo powered machins. Both of them have issues on track with heat management.. and these are not modified cars.. they are factory turbos with hundreds of thousands of miles and hours of development behind them
dj06482 wrote: That track day gave me an appreciation for how hard it is to run FI for longer sessions, let alone wheel to wheel racing.
I know, I know... I've been watching puffers die at the track for years. All those STi's and Evos end up beached. The newer BMWs, VWs and Audis have had issues but those damn Porsches - they are doing something right.
For the record - I have used this thread to rule out turbo as an easy power option. I'm saving for the S54 with a knife edged crank at this point. Anybody wanna buy a kidney?
Porsche has been racing Turbos longer than anybody... so I am sure they got that old black magic going
Dumb question but are you trying to stay in CM because a 2.0 turbo will be DM level displacement... I'm curious if anyone has figured out how to sleeve or get a shorter stroke crank in an M50 to get you down to 2.3L, that might be a better starting point considering you have a bunch of 6 cyl stuff already and turbo M50's are reasonably fleshed out hot rod builds on the interwebz. Though the thought you and Nafi running dueling Mad Max E30's together in DM would be entertaining...
Still If you decide on the M42 let me know as I've had several hair brained schemes to build one of these myself, just that whole being the first space monkey thing has caused my wallet to run for the hills...
I think there is a Euro crank to make a 2.0L I6......or was that for the M20s?
You'll need to log in to post.
