Teach me dead Swedes

So the thread poopshovel wrote about looking for another car got me thinking. As I wrote in that thread, I've got an '08 Honda Fit I'm trying to decide what to do with. I've had my old Volvo as a DD for 2 years, but it's a fuel hog. I inherited the Fit from the Mrs when she got her new car. I like it, it's a great little economy car. Checks almost all my "must have" boxes. Reliable, fuel efficient, fun to drive. But it's missing some of the luxury/upscale car touches I'm used to in my Volvo. I'm considering selling it...even had a good cash offer, but I turned it down because I couldn't think of anything as a suitable replacement that would be as good as the Fit or better (again, we're talking newer model, lower mileage cars).

Someone mentioned a Saab wagon in that thread. The '06-'08 cars seem to be falling into the sub $10k price range for a nice, low mileage one. I really love my Volvo, wouldn't sell it if it weren't a gas hog.

Which models are parts made from unobtanium? I know the V6 engines were crap, but I'd be looking for the 4cyl anyway. How's fuel mileage? Can I realistically get 30+mpg out of it? Are they reliable?

I had a 99 9-5 sedan with a manual trans. I could get ~31 on the highway. It was a very nice car. I drove it for 5 years 02-07 and put 100k on it. My sister then had it till 2011. the 06-09 car should be the best of the bunch. past the sludge issues of the early cars. you probably won't find a manual car in that price range though. SWMBO has also had 2 9-3 sedans (04 and 2010). IMHO they are an even better car from a relibility standpoint. we have done almost nothing to those cars 2004 added 100k to it. we have ~ 40k on the 2010. body parts on the 2008 on can be tough to find.

Chris

also the 9-3s can get in the 33 range for mpg.

Chris

I had several late 9000 turbos, which are mechanically very similar to the 9-5. They were great cars. Even with having 200+ hp, I never got less than 26mpg on a tank, and often got. 30+ highway. On BABE rally with it, it frequently got better mileage than the Miata we were running with, even though it was much bigger and had 4 people And stuff.

Parts are available and reasonably priced, but it is mostly stuff you have to order. I found it easy to work on, too. They will not be as reliable as a Honda. Stick to the high pressure 2.3 turbo models. The biggest problem they have is oil sludgeing, so run synthetic and change it often.

I put the link up for the SAAB and here is my personal experience with my 03 9-5 Aero so take from it what you will.

I got our 9-5 with 100K on it 4 years ago, it now has 180K on it and it has been very reliable for me. We got it for my wife when our second child was born because her current car was too small for 2 car seats. Anyway, aside from brakes and oil we have only had 4 issues with it and none of them are very big.

1. There are two plastic rollers for each of the windows. One broke on the drivers side. I replaced both from parts from the dealer and the grand total was $16.

2. One side of the factory wind deflector for the sunroof popped up. I fixed that with a pop rivet.

3. Now that the car is 10 years old the battery that feeds the alarm is going bad and if the outside temp gets close to 0 the alarm will go off. You can get the alarm turned off by a shop via Tech II or you can just remove the battery. So far I have removed the battery but I intend to get it turned off at some point.

4. There is a wire loom that runs out of the car into the trunk lid. The wires in the loom are known to break where they flex coming out of the boddy and this happened to mine just before Christmas. As a result the trunk will not open. The fis is to send one of my children intot he trunk, pull the release and splice in new wire. This is one the list of things to do but not really that high right now.

Thats it and for a 10 year old car with 180K that I do not baby I think its been great. Mine is a 5 spd and I get mid twentys on my commute, about 26 miles with a 50/50 mix of highway and stop n-go. On highway trips I see low to mid 30's as long as I keep it around 75.

I have not found any parts hard to find and now that the Chinese are building the cars for the Chinese market things should stay that way.

The one thing to keep an eye on is the Direct Ignition Cassette. It is the COP for the car but it is one piece and if it dies you are stuck. The one on my car is at about 100K miles and has shown no signes of letting go but I am getting a spare to carry in the trunk. If the car starts throwing out miss fire codes that usually points at the DIC. It is 4 bolts to take it out so every time I change the oil I pull it off and check the plugs. Using that method I have put @ 300K miles on SAABs with DIC and have only had one failure.

As long as the oil has been changed when its supposed to with Synthetic oil you should not have any issues with sludge but it is easy to check. Take a wire coat hanger, stick it down the dipstick hole and scrape it on the bottom of the pan. If you get gook that makes the car much cheaper.

There is also a "heater bypass" hose that has a valve in it that tends to leak. You can replace that part, not expensive, or just bypass it. Again, not expensive and not complicated.

That is all I can think of right now. Mine has been the most reliable car I have had, this includes the 90 Celica and the 93 Civic I have had. I drove mine from Ohio to Arkansas and back this summer and would drive it across the contry with no resurvations.

If you have any other questions ask away. I think these are some of the most undervalued cars out there right now. They are big inside, safe, reliable (at least mine has been), fun to drive and good on gas.

Thanks for the input. Forgive my ignorance, but is the 9-5 just a stetched version of the 9-3 or are they completely different?

Given a choice, I'd like a manual trans wagon, but could go with a sedan for the right price. I'd like at an auto, but would very much prefer manual for many reasons.

What is COP?

The 9-5 is a completely different platform than the 9-3, SUBSTANTIALLY larger, and different engines; 9-3 has GM Ecotec turbo, 9-5 has the venerable Saab B23. COP = coil on plug.

I've had a bunch of Saabs and rusted busted spit has said pretty much all there is to say. I would go for an 06-earlier model to guarantee body part availability, but YMMV.

the only saab I would stay away from where the NG900s from 94 on. Once they becaome 9-3s.. they were substantially better

From a reliability standpoint, is B23>Ecotec? Looks like they have similar fuel mileage ratings.

Avoid the auto trans in these at all costs. It has been junk since back when used in the 9000.

I don't think there was ever the ecotec in the 9-5, only the 9-3 that was built on the GM Malibu platform.

Klayfish wrote: From a reliability standpoint, is B23>Ecotec? Looks like they have similar fuel mileage ratings.

I think the B23 is a much better engine, they are TOUGH and can crack 300HP without substantial mods. Ecotecs like to throw timing chains after 100k. Depending on which car you want, though, you are stuck with one or the other - Ecotec on 03-up 9-3, B23 on any 9-5.

B23 is a great engine. Like said, it doesn't break. It's everything around it that goes

I think you are looking for a 06+ 9-3 Sportcombi with the 4 cylinder and standard tranny. It gets the best fuel economy and is a much more modern car than the 9-5. It handles better too. The 9-5 is only SLIGHTLY larger than the 9-3 mainly in the rear seat legroom and a couple of inches in the cargo area. The 9-3 has a good V6 that is totally unrelated to the old 9-5 V6 that was crap. The new engine is thirsty but is smoother and more powerful. The 9-3 is reliable and rated better than average for those years. Some parts like bumpers are getting difficult to find but most wear items are plentiful. You wouldn't want to get rear ended because the repairs would be costly and maybe impossible. There are parts flowing but expect delays. You can easily get over 30mpg on the hwy with a manual 4 cylinder. Combined will be more like lower to mid 20's

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Raoul_Wallenberg

RBS covered just about all of it, much like all other european cars though keep up on the services.

If 9-5 is you're choice try for an 04+ (after the sledge TSB came out and has all the updates wanted) aside from that in a lot of ways i miss my 9-5.

Aspen wrote: I think you are looking for a 06+ 9-3 Sportcombi with the 4 cylinder and standard tranny. It gets the best fuel economy and is a much more modern car than the 9-5.

Right, from what I could tell, the '07 or '08 9-5 was debuted in '99 and the '07-'08 9-3 was new in '04. Definitely want a 4 cyl with manual, fuel efficiency is at the top of my list. Very interesting. Still just have to convince myself that it's a good idea to let go of my dead nuts reliable Honda Fit.

FWIW Stay far far FAR away from any V6 BTW

JtspellS wrote: FWIW Stay far far FAR away from any V6 BTW

Not quite; the 2.8 (9-3) is perfectly fine. The 3.0 (9-5) is nothing short of EVIL.

Karl Linnaeus: father of modern Taxonomy and Binomial Nomenclature of Organisms.

A dead Swede we all should know.

Since fuel economy is at the top of my list, I wouldn't be looking at the V6s anyway. I like the 9-3, just don't know a whole lot about the Ecotec...and my image of GM isn't very flattering.

the saab was the least GM of the cars in GM's stable. Those pesky swedish engineers kept spending money on things that didn't matter to GM. Refer to the Top Gear episode where they give Saab a send off.

Aspen wrote: I think you are looking for a 06+ 9-3 Sportcombi with the 4 cylinder and standard tranny. It gets the best fuel economy and is a much more modern car than the 9-5. It handles better too. The 9-5 is only SLIGHTLY larger than the 9-3 mainly in the rear seat legroom and a couple of inches in the cargo area. The 9-3 has a good V6 that is totally unrelated to the old 9-5 V6 that was crap. The new engine is thirsty but is smoother and more powerful. The 9-3 is reliable and rated better than average for those years. Some parts like bumpers are getting difficult to find but most wear items are plentiful. You wouldn't want to get rear ended because the repairs would be costly and maybe impossible. There are parts flowing but expect delays. You can easily get over 30mpg on the hwy with a manual 4 cylinder. Combined will be more like lower to mid 20's

When it is time for my 9-5 to leave I will be looking for a 9-3 SC but, the motor in the 9-3, except for the TT v6, has much less power than the 2.3 in the Aero. My dad has a 9-3 Vert with the High pressure motor in it and my car will leave it for dead and get better mileage to boot. Also, on the inside, the 9-5 is noticeably bigger and if you have children its a big deal.

One thing I really like about my car is how big the trunk is. When I bought the car we flew out to Delaware to pick up the car. There were three of us, my wife, 5 year old son and myself with our luggage. I got the dealer to throw in an extra set of 16 in alloy wheels with snow tires on them. When we picked up the car all 4 extra wheels were in the trunk and all but one of our bags fit in there also. I was very impressed.

One more question for you Saab folks. After test driving a lot of cars and searching CL/Autotrader/Ebay endlessly, I concluded that my Fit is the best option. At my price point around $10k, and I didn't see anything that would fit the bill and be a better car for me than my Honda.

That said, I always keep my options open. It looks like the '99-'00 9-5 can be had pretty darn cheap. Aren't they basically the same car as the '07-'08 with just some interior and cosmetic body design changes? Besides sludge build up, anything to watch for? If I can find a clean '99 for cheap, it may be worth the investment. I just sold my '96 850 wagon last night and I miss it already...

I know the mid-00s 9-5s sufferered from engine sludge problems. I seem to remember lots of talk of it on the saab message boards a few years back.