Teach me - Honda warm hatches (ef/eg)

Basically, the kind of old warm/hot hatch Honda that I can still get speed parts for. '88-on for those who don't speak fluent Honda-ese.

I would generally prefer not to wander into abysses like h-tech and the like, so what do I need to know about them?

Background - I finally managed to make up my mind, I'll definitely be selling the CRX very soon. As a replacement I'm looking for something halfway practical that has a bit more headroom so I can actually fit in there with a helmet. I like Hondas. The "halfway practical" part comes in so I can use the car both as a shopping trolley and chuck a set of track wheels with sticky tires in the back and drive down to, say, Willow Springs or Buttonwillow in reasonable comfort.

I've actually never owned a Honda Civic hatch (closest I got was an Integra Type-R) and I'm thinking I might enjoy the different experience. Or just go buy another Integra, just not a Type-R this time. Provided I can find one that hasn't been ragged to death, but I think that's a problem with all of them.

too bad you didn't come up with this idea 4 mo. ago .. I was selling my '01 Integra LS … it still had the CAI, the header (2 1/2" cat back) and the 22mm rear sway bar with crossmember brace

second person that looked at it bought it .. at my price (it had only 93k mi) … guess I asked too little

good luck … a hatch would be a pretty good choice

Don't write off ek hatches either

Forgot to add a couple of important pieces of info:

• I'm looking to spend something like $2k-$4k on the car itself as I expect to have to undo some of the PO's work
• I know I mentioned track use, the idea is to have it around as a potential backup track car because I keep missing too many track days due to lack of a working car

Rust usually isn't an issue out here which is kinda useful with older Hondas, but anything else to check for apart from a clued-up owner?

Anybody else want to imbue me with some knowledge?

you could start here

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/200x-classifieds/uhhhh-you-guys-may-want-to-see-this-civic-si/96799/page1/

then go to this (the formula for Honda builds)

https://www.facebook.com/HollisRacing/notes

and this, found by scrolling down … look through everything he has … lots of good info on how to make the civic work

https://www.facebook.com/notes/hollis-racing/st-civic-setup-2011/189215754495732

I really enjoyed my time with an EG. We prepped a '92 Civic Si for Street Touring autocross, and the stories ran in the mag. This was the red oxide primer car.

It's basically a slightly upsized CRX. The rear hatch is huge, and I love the little clamshell back. Ours had Integra seats, and it was all very comfy.

Today, the biggest challenges will probably be finding a non-rusty tub. Check the the spot between the rear wheel arches and the bumper cover.

I remember that car - I think the stories ran roughly around the time I discovered the mag.

Given that I managed to find an almost rust free 1st gen CRX out here, I'm hopeful I can also find a rust free EG with a little bit of searching. A non-salvage title one that's in nice shape on the other hand...

Edit: Hmmm: http://sfbay.craigslist.org/nby/cto/4807641495.html

captdownshift wrote: Don't write off ek hatches either

My neighbor's 14 year old kid found a totally stock EK hatch last spring that had been sitting for a while and needed refreshment. He's been able to bring it back to life on birthday money and lawn mowing gigs. I drove one as a delivery vehicle for years and it was a great place to spend the day and could handle occasional spirited driving with ease. It was an auto and only got semi regular oil changes/maintenance but still lasted well over 200k. I considered buying it from the shop but it was in really poor cosmetic condition at the end of its life.

High mileage d-series motors are pretty notorious for wearing valve stem seals; expect some gray smoke and oil consumption when this happens.

If you buy an '88-'91 Dx, you end up with dual-point fuel injection instead of the multi-point version found on the Si's. Right away you're down over 10hp to the Si. Most of that can be carved back by upgrading with the usual intake/header/exhaust routine. It's also fairly easy to swap over to Si injection. Civics from '92 up got the multi-point unit.

The '88-'91 Dx's have transaxle ratios geared towards fuel economy. Shorter tires (185/60-13 or 195/45-15) will get you more revs. Sticky tires for track use are available in more 13" sizes but you'll need to go with wheels at least 7" inches wide.

Some parts are NLA from Honda and the list gets longer every day so get a car as intact as possible.

Keep in mind that Ef/Eg sedans all share the same qualities, still have room to carry the stuff you mentioned and also (may) have a slightly stiffer chassis.

Also, '88's are relatively rare but it's worth noting they have different rear trailing control arms that use a different shock mount from all the other model years.

I think if I'd be looking at an EF, I'd want an Si like the one I linked to in my last post. Well, unless I stumble across one with a B-series swap that's well executed.

I suspected that EFs would start suffering from the same parts NLA problem that my current CRX does. One of the reasons for looking at EF/EGs is that the aftermarket hasn't dried up yet the same way it did for the first gen CRX.

Thanks for the suggestion re sedans, I'll keep that in mind but for some reason I have my heart set on a hatch right now. But things change .

I can't speak for your market but EGs may be just as hard to find in good condition and reasonable prices as a late CRX.

I got out of the Hondas in 2004 because people were asking $4K for high mileage, rusted, dented, beat up EGs in the Midwest and chances are they were going to get stolen shortly after anyway.

Plan B was a 4 door integra LS with plans to do a "frankenstein" LS/Vtec motor and then I ran the insurance numbers. In Chicago (which has bad insurance costs to begin with) insuring a 4 door LS was going to cost me $125 a month for full coverage at 25 yrs old with a good driving record! Then just for fun as a comparison I ran insurance numbers for a last gen Formula Firebird and it was $114 a month! I moved on to VWs then.

If I were you I'd hold out for a hatch. It's just a better form factor than the coupes and sedans for your intended use. Better outward visibility too. I personally would go with an ef hatch over the eg. The eg rear "hatch" splits in two with the glass flipping up and the metal liftgate that folds down. Makes cargo access kinda tricky. Ef rear hatch is all one piece.

They are pretty rare at this point (not hacked up at least), but the eg si comes with disc brakes all around unlike the other hatches of that gen. If you would be happy with the sohc 1.6 vtec (d16z6), then they are the easiest place to start. If you plan on swapping a bunch of stuff over then might as well start with a dx/cx since they will be easier to find and be cheaper to boot. Si also came with a sunroof if that makes a difference to you.

I really miss my 93si. It was a fantastic car, especially with modest suspension mods. Carried me for 7 years of joyful motoring. Sniff.

I'm waiting for my title come in from OR, but you should buy mine :)

You're not super far from SF... But my car is certainly ragged to death. Reliable as a hammer though.

One of our LeMons cars is an '89(?) hatch, with a bunch of Integra in the suspension. I can't tell you much for a daily driver perspective, but as a road racer, we call it our "easy button" car. It is so amazingly easy to drive at or near its' limits. It's very predictable, never does anything that will make you clench your cheeks. If it does start to step out, it's very easy to bring back under control...just mash the gas. It's a momentum car to be sure, most everything walks away from me on the straights, but I can ride right on pretty much any cars' rear bumper in the corners. Best analogy I can give is it's kind of like a surgeons knife, where our other car (uh...boat) is more like a sledge hammer. Both effective, but in different ways. So if you're going to track it, go for it!!

Do you have any local import "clubs?" I've seen some REALLY REALLY nice cars for sale here. Generally speaking, not a lot of junk gets posted on these boards:

http://www.importatlanta.com/forums/honda-and-acura-car-classifieds/?s=08e93513b740010620aa943284bd1730

When I was shopping for another Honda a few years ago, an insanely nice hatch - like restoration quality nice - 200 and something HP all motor, full stock interior, immaculate paint go for $4k or less.

Also, these guys used to be cool and then disappeared, but you have to register to view classifieds.

http://www.importlounge.com/forum/

People hem and haw about all the Hondas being riced or rusted, but it's just not true. You just have to know where to look for them, and those places are not CL or Ebay.

In reply to poopshovel:

I think there is one that started up fairly recently. They have a forum that I should check out...

I overcame my fear of h-tech and poked around their classified section a bit. Oh My, there are a couple of clean cars on there that I wouldn't mind having.

Local import forums are also great for finding parts. You'll find stuff on there that people don't bother listing on CL or eBay, etc. Usually a bit cheaper, too.