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Duke
Duke MegaDork
3/5/18 12:21 p.m.
pkingham said:

My wife has a 2013 C-Max (non-plug-in) which we bought new.  It now has ~70K miles.  

Reliability has been pretty good, though the 12V battery failed pretty early on and was replaced under warranty.  It has had several recalls, though, from ECU programming to air bags and other things I can't remember.  Otherwise I've just changed oil, and it seems pretty much like new (with the exception of the kid detritus).

When you say 12v battery failed, do you mean the starter battery?  The main battery is some other voltage, I think?

The reason I ask is that DD#1 has found a low-miles 2013 C-Max SEL in her price range.  It's got 38,000 on it and they are asking $11,500.  It's a non-Energi, which she prefers, and which seem to be rarer than the Energi version.

She has read about battery failures on 2013 C-Maxes and it's not clear if that is the regular starter battery (for ~$150 I'm not worried about that) or the main battery (which we are worried about).  Anybody have info?  Thanks.

GameboyRMH
GameboyRMH GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
3/5/18 1:44 p.m.
Duke said:

When you say 12v battery failed, do you mean the starter battery?  The main battery is some other voltage, I think?

Yeah an EV's battery pack output voltage is in the hundreds of volts.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
3/5/18 2:40 p.m.

Cast your votes:

A:    2013 Ford C-Max SEL Hybrid - $11,500 - 38,500 miles

  • Pro: low miles, apparently very clean / accident free, probably 1-owner, right color exterior, nice trim level
  • Con: Central PA location (road salt), black leather interior not preferred, no sunroof

B:    2013 Ford C-Max SE Hybrid - $8,995 - 60,500 miles

  • Pro: PRICE, Virginia location, apparently clean / accident free, right color exterior and interior, sunroof, PRICE
  • Con: Fleet history, exterior a little rashy, lower trim level (with decent options)

Both of these are non-Energi models, which are preferred for her.  I'm not real familiar with the differences between the SE and SEL trims.  DD#1 says she is not crazy about leather seats (she's never owned a car that has them, though all our dailies do; I like them).  Both have heated seats and nav.

For my money I would spend the extra $2500 and get the cleaner, newer, nicer car... but it's not my money.  I think she'll actually like the leather once she gets used to it.  Her current car doesn't have a sunroof so I don't think she will miss it.

pkingham
pkingham GRM+ Memberand Reader
3/5/18 2:53 p.m.

In reply to Duke :

Yes, I mean the starter/accessories battery.  Many of the systems on the car still run off of 12V, so when it dies, absolutely nothing comes on.  There's no way (that I could find) to get it out of Park, either.  I didn't do the replacement myself as it was under warranty, so I don't know if there's anything special about swapping it.

pkingham
pkingham GRM+ Memberand Reader
3/5/18 2:58 p.m.

In reply to Duke :

If it weren't for the road salt location, I'd go with the SEL.  With that, I'd probably lean towards the SE.

One nice thing about these cars is I don't think I'll ever have to do brakes, at least not because they wore out!

 

szeis4cookie
szeis4cookie Dork
3/5/18 4:12 p.m.

My SE came from that area of PA, I wouldn't be too worried about it. That said, I'd probably do the SE over the SEL - I don't think the additional features are worth the extra money.  That SE has a few more options than mine has, and the sunroof is a nice touch.

STM317
STM317 Dork
3/5/18 6:33 p.m.

In a related topic, it's recently come to my attention that 1st gen Fusion Hybrids are starting to get pretty cheap too, and they look like every other Fusion on the road rather than a potato on a roller skate. Longer wheelbase and very similar fuel economy to the CMax appeal to me for a potential commuting appliance.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
3/8/18 1:46 p.m.
Duke said:

Cast your votes:

A:    2013 Ford C-Max SEL Hybrid - $11,500 - 38,500 miles

  • Pro: low miles, apparently very clean / accident free, probably 1-owner, right color exterior, nice trim level
  • Con: Central PA location (road salt), black leather interior not preferred, no sunroof

B:    2013 Ford C-Max SE Hybrid - $8,995 - 60,500 miles

  • Pro: PRICE, Virginia location, apparently clean / accident free, right color exterior and interior, sunroof, PRICE
  • Con: Fleet history, exterior a little rashy, lower trim level (with decent options)

OK, quick followup question / more data.

DD#1 strongly prefers the 60,000 mile SE because of its price, Virginia location, and non-black-leather interior.  But it has a checkered past, somewhat:

Carfax shows no accidents and a clean title (standard Carfax disclaimer applies).

Owner #1 bought / leased it in June 2013 or so and drove it until winter of 2016-17, putting around 40,000 miles on it.  Seems reasonable.

Went to auction and Owner #2 bought it in spring of 2017 and put 20,000 miles on it in 8 months before it got reposessed in late fall of 2017.  Current dealer has had it in inventory for at least 90 days, or more.  No data on whether it's the same place that Owner #2 bought it from or not.

It worries me enough that I would pull the plug and keep looking, but she prefers the configuration and it is not too expensive.  In her mind she can save $2500 up front and maybe needs to spend a little of that back if it needs anything.  It doesn't help that it is a solid 2-hour drive away, so we won't be able to see it in person until we're there to make the buy / pass decision.

Anybody have thoughts?  She's eager to move on this, despite my reservations.  I can advise, but it is her money and her decision.

pkingham
pkingham GRM+ Memberand Reader
3/8/18 2:06 p.m.

At this point, you're not talking about anything specific to hybrids, so it's just the standard trade-offs when buying a used car.  That history is actually very similar to that of a 2014 Expedition I  bought a couple years ago, even down to the repossession.  It's worked out fine for me, but  that says nothing about what she would experience.  So, I don't think I can add anything usefull.

slefain
slefain PowerDork
3/8/18 2:33 p.m.

As an aside, you can actually buy remanufactured hybrid battery packs from NAPA: https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/NHY2001001

 

Not sure what the protocol is for ordering one, but it is kinda cool knowing they are available from somewhere other than a dealership.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
3/8/18 2:37 p.m.
pkingham said:

At this point, you're not talking about anything specific to hybrids, so it's just the standard trade-offs when buying a used car. 

Yeah, I understand that.  Glad to hear it worked out for you, though of course HMMV.  Thanks for your input in this thread.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
3/8/18 4:04 p.m.

Well, she appears to be moving closer to buying the repo.

I really really wish she would buy this one instead:  2014 C-Max SE - 21,000 miles - $11,400

For $2500 more, it's a year newer and 1/3 the mileage, and much cleaner in history and presentation.

Duke
Duke MegaDork
3/26/18 8:53 a.m.

Achievement Unlocked:  DD#1 bought her first car.

It's actually her third car in 10 years.  Her first car was a cheapie '98 Impreza wagon we bought for her in 2008, that she bent after about a year.  It was replaced by the Bugeye (which effectively I found and bought for her using her money) that she's been driving since late 2009.  But this one is the first where all on her own she did the research, she did the test drives, she located the one she wanted, she arranged the financing, and she closed the deal.

It's a 2013 C-Max SEL with the 302A package, which includes nav and upgraded audio, backup camera, and the foot-activated power liftgate.  Ice Storm Metallic (her preferred color) over Medium Light Stone leather interior (also her preferred color, and depsite her protests about not wanting leather, it took her about 3 minutes to decide that yeah it's pretty nice) with heated seats.  It also has the seemingly rare fixed panoramic moonroof, which is pretty nice from inside.

This is not the repo car discussed above.  It's a 1-owner car with a great service history that lived its life in extreme southern DE / tidewater MD area, though she bought it from a dealer in Fredericksburg, VA yesterday after we took the train down from Wilmington to check it out in person.  It does have about 64,000 miles on it, but it's nearly a creampuff.  There is one tiny tiny scuff on the bottom corner of the front fascia, and one minor scratch on an interior trim panel near the hatch area.  But honestly both exterior and interior are clean as a whistle and the seats barely look sat in.  Despite slightly higher than average mileage it's a really nice car.

She paid $12,000 + $500 "fee" + tax for it.  Considering the trim level, options, and condition, it seems like a solid deal.

We drove it home about 160 miles, mostly on I-95, ranging from stop-n-go around DC to 75 mph cruising.  The info system was showing a lifetime average of 40.4 mpg, which went up to 40.7 by the time we got home.  Compared to the Impreza, it should save her about $50 a month on gas, and it's just a so much nicer place to be every day.

As others said, it's very normal-car to drive, but the instant feedback on what the hybrid system is doing is kind of fascinating.  She's already shooting for 100% braking regen efficiency on every stop.  It's got plenty of pep for what it is and while it is obviously not a light car, it doesn't handle badly at all.  It's not an Energi, so it is about 250-300 lbs lighter and has more hatch space.

Hybrids are new territory for us.  I really appreciate all the information and suggestions everybody gave above!

eastsideTim
eastsideTim UltraDork
3/26/18 9:26 a.m.

Awesome!

szeis4cookie
szeis4cookie Dork
3/26/18 9:32 a.m.

Good stuff!  

Vigo
Vigo UltimaDork
3/26/18 10:15 a.m.

In my opinion the drivetrain works better (more responsive, more powerful) than the run of the mill Focus or Escape you could buy at the same time, in addition to getting MUCH better mpg.

Congrats!

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