Tell me how stupid I am (3100 V6 content)

moparman76_69 wrote: Yep Malibu with an Olds badge. Apparently it's a car so mundane even people here won't modify them.

it was the next generation of the Corsica/Beretta... pretty mundane- but intake gaskets are easy. just get the good gasket set and make sure you put everything back together..

novaderrik wrote: make sure you put everything back together..

Sorry couldn't help it.

Mine has been unkillable besides the intake gaskets. I had them done about 250k ago. It has a growling noise in the tranny that I thought was the beginning of the end but that was about 10,000 miles ago and it's still going fine. The last time I was at the junkyard I was thinking about a swap if it needed to be replaced. looking through the piles I was wondering it the Impala 5.3 would bolt up to the AWD minivan tranny, and if the minivan subframe would fit in the back of the Malibu. If I'm going to daydream why not go crazy.

volvoclearinghouse wrote: A buddy of mine loves these GM A bodies. He swears by the 88-91 model years. Hates the 3100 with a passion, loves the 3300. 3300 was discontinued in 92 or 93, IIRC, and the 93s have a lot of year-specific parts. He mostly buys 3300 powered A bodies for 1000 bucks and drives them into the ground. Cheap, reliable, plentiful A-B cars. I think right now he has one each Chevy, Olds, and Buick. He modified the Ciera (a rust-free, low mile estate car) with shorter final gears and the OD trans w/ lockup converter. Sub 8 second 0-60, 14's in the quarter. And 25 mpg. Pretty respectable #s.

That makes complete sense. The 3300 is not an aggravating, nonsensical design. I definitely prefer it to the 3100. Glad someone out there hot rods Cutlass Cieras. My grandma had one and to be honest it was a pretty dang decent car back in the day. heh.

Vigo wrote:

volvoclearinghouse wrote: A buddy of mine loves these GM A bodies. He swears by the 88-91 model years. Hates the 3100 with a passion, loves the 3300. 3300 was discontinued in 92 or 93, IIRC, and the 93s have a lot of year-specific parts. He mostly buys 3300 powered A bodies for 1000 bucks and drives them into the ground. Cheap, reliable, plentiful A-B cars. I think right now he has one each Chevy, Olds, and Buick. He modified the Ciera (a rust-free, low mile estate car) with shorter final gears and the OD trans w/ lockup converter. Sub 8 second 0-60, 14's in the quarter. And 25 mpg. Pretty respectable #s.

That makes complete sense. The 3300 is not an aggravating, nonsensical design. I definitely prefer it to the 3100. Glad someone out there hot rods Cutlass Cieras. My grandma had one and to be honest it was a pretty dang decent car back in the day. heh.

The first car I ever drove on a regular basis was my mom's 1990 Ciera with a 3300. I remember it being some dark maroon color that the cops seemed to be able to pick out immediately. :-/ It was plenty fast for a ham-fisted 16 year old- I routinely pegged the speedo (I think it went to 100 or 120- incredible!) and drove that car like I stole it- it still got 25 mpg. One time I slid it into a snowbank and popped the radiator- drove it home, adding coolant every few miles. Replaced the radiator, no lingering issues. I think it ate two computers, but otherwise it was damn near indestructible.

Well, until my brother ran a red light and got T-boned. Luckily, he was fine, but the car went to the great scrapyard in the sky.

A warmed over 3300 A body could be a heck of a challenge/LeMons/Chump car. I wonder if any manual gearboxes would fit...bah, doesn't matter. The engine had so much power even the autobox was plenty fun to drive. I really don't understand why they're so darn cheap, but I guess by now they are 20+ years old and not a Honda.

how about a cool swap like a 3400 dohc 5 speed?

Most people don't like the DOHC 3.4. It has it's own WHY DID THEY DO IT THIS WAY?!!? issues.

They put the 2.2 ecotec in later malibus (same body style). I dont really mind those at all other than the stupid oil filter housing cap.

In reply to Vigo:

You sure about that? I thought they got the 2.4 twin cam not the ecotec. A 2.4 twin cam swap+turbo crossed my mind, until I found out that you have to change most of the wiring and all the computers so everything will play nice. Plus I'd have to invest in tuning equipment.

I did the lower intake gaskets on the 3100 in my W-body Century and had them start leaking again. Just doing that work on it gave the impression that it was a crappy old design. I wouldn't own any of the older GMs V6s again. GM probably made the right move in dropping all of them. The 3.5L DOHC used in the Intrigue and Aurora was decent, and that would be the only old GM V6 I would get. I am sure most FWD economy V6s aren't much better.

Flat_Black13z wrote: i did one the other day, not that bad. The water pump/timing chains on the 2.7 sebring i wont do.

Oh, i love those. Easier than in the Intrepid. Those are the kind of easy yet tedious jobs I rather enjoy.

(First you remove the intake manifold so you can remove the valve covers so you can get to the timing chains so you can pull the front of the engine off so you can get to the water pump, which is chain driven)

Vigo wrote: Most people don't like the DOHC 3.4. It has it's own WHY DID THEY DO IT THIS WAY?!!? issues.

I love the dummy shaft that you have to remove one of the cylinder heads to change the O-ring that leaks oil.

You sure about that? I thought they got the 2.4 twin cam not the ecotec. A 2.4 twin cam swap+turbo crossed my mind, until I found out that you have to change most of the wiring and all the computers so everything will play nice. Plus I'd have to invest in tuning equipment.

They may have had the 2.4 in earlier years, but i have seen and worked on a 2.2 malibu in that body style. It was in the early 00's towards the end of the run.

I wouldn't own any of the older GMs V6s again

The 3800 is in a whole different league, imo. It does have its niggles like the plastic coolant elbows and a much less annoying intake gasket problem. But it's not a motor that's worth putting up with a whole car for, so if you won't drive an old GM FWD (and i wouldnt blame you) there's nothing about the 3.8 worth changing your mind over. The best 3.8 cars are the ones it didnt come in that have had it swapped in.

Vigo wrote:

You sure about that? I thought they got the 2.4 twin cam not the ecotec. A 2.4 twin cam swap+turbo crossed my mind, until I found out that you have to change most of the wiring and all the computers so everything will play nice. Plus I'd have to invest in tuning equipment.

They may have had the 2.4 in earlier years, but i have seen and worked on a 2.2 malibu in that body style. It was in the early 00's towards the end of the run.

I wouldn't own any of the older GMs V6s again

The 3800 is in a whole different league, imo. It does have its niggles like the plastic coolant elbows and a much less annoying intake gasket problem. But it's not a motor that's worth putting up with a whole car for, so if you won't drive an old GM FWD (and i wouldnt blame you) there's nothing about the 3.8 worth changing your mind over. The best 3.8 cars are the ones it didnt come in that have had it swapped in.

those plastic coolant elbows in the 3800 can be replaced with aluminum parts from any parts store in a half hour for under $10..

Right, so all it costs you is the time it takes out of your day to sit on the side of the road waiting for a tow truck when you're supposed to be somewhere. It's not a big deal when it's parked in a shop and you have the part and the tools in your hands, but even those of us who talk all the right talk...dont ALWAYS pre-emptively fix stuff that isn't broken yet, and the average person DEFINITELY doesn't..

Vigo wrote: Right, so all it costs you is the time it takes out of your day to sit on the side of the road waiting for a tow truck when you're supposed to be somewhere. It's not a big deal when it's parked in a shop and you have the part and the tools in your hands, but even those of us who talk all the right talk...dont ALWAYS pre-emptively fix stuff that isn't broken yet, and the average person DEFINITELY doesn't..

tow truck? what's that for?

just keep dumping water in it and driving it until you get home.. you do keep a couple of gallons of water in the trunk, right?

novaderrik wrote:

Vigo wrote:

You sure about that? I thought they got the 2.4 twin cam not the ecotec. A 2.4 twin cam swap+turbo crossed my mind, until I found out that you have to change most of the wiring and all the computers so everything will play nice. Plus I'd have to invest in tuning equipment.

They may have had the 2.4 in earlier years, but i have seen and worked on a 2.2 malibu in that body style. It was in the early 00's towards the end of the run.

I wouldn't own any of the older GMs V6s again

The 3800 is in a whole different league, imo. It does have its niggles like the plastic coolant elbows and a much less annoying intake gasket problem. But it's not a motor that's worth putting up with a whole car for, so if you won't drive an old GM FWD (and i wouldnt blame you) there's nothing about the 3.8 worth changing your mind over. The best 3.8 cars are the ones it didnt come in that have had it swapped in.

those plastic coolant elbows in the 3800 can be replaced with aluminum parts from any parts store in a half hour for under $10..

I did the one in my mom's old LeSabre using some brass pieces from Home Depot about 10 years ago, the whole time muttering to myself why some berkeleying motherberkeleyer cheapass berkeleyer of a berkeleyer at General berkeleying Motors decided to use berkeleying plastic in a berkeleying engine.

I did the whole new plastic intake / gaskets / elbows swap on my 3.8 Intrigue a few months ago. Tedious but not absolutely horrible, mostly anyway, but now I have a car that slowly loses a little coolant. And I'm pretty sure it's consuming it and not leaking it to the outside.

Honestly at this point I could care less as long as it starts. When that is no longer the case the car is getting scrapped. That's assuming I don't find something at a dealership to trade it in on first.

just keep dumping water in it and driving it until you get home.. you do keep a couple of gallons of water in the trunk, right?

We dont all have Grassroots Wives... sadly..

It's funny, she drives the most valuable car that we own, but i wouldnt TRUST her to drive most of mine. Pretty soon a $10 coolant piece becomes a headgasket job.

Knurled wrote:

Vigo wrote: Most people don't like the DOHC 3.4. It has it's own WHY DID THEY DO IT THIS WAY?!!? issues.

I love the dummy shaft that you have to remove one of the cylinder heads to change the O-ring that leaks oil.

or you unclamp it, pop it up 1/4" till it hits the head, brakekleen it, slit your run of the mill chevy distributor gasket so it slides around the shaft, and crank it back down with a little RTV.

i love me some 3.4 DOHC engine sounds. especially shifting at 6800 with a 5 speed. i miss my z34

novaderrik wrote: tow truck? what's that for? just keep dumping water in it and driving it until you get home.. you do keep a couple of gallons of water in the trunk, right?

That's a good way to blow the rear bank's head gasket, since the front cylinder (cylinder 1, am fairly sure) there is in a spot that will easily get an airlock since the intake passage there is blind. Once the coolant goes low, the only way to get the air out of there is to use a vacuum airlift system or jack the front of the car three feet off the ground.

Alternatively, on the '01-up engines with 8mm rocker bolts, the exhaust valve binds in the guide and the rocker yanks the threads out of the head.

Don't get me wrong, I love these little engines, and have slowly but surely been collecting the parts to make a big cammed 13:1 screamer (including the good canted-valve heads that have 10mm rocker bolts!), but they don't really tolerate a laissez-faire attitude towards maintenance.

Knurled wrote:

novaderrik wrote: tow truck? what's that for? just keep dumping water in it and driving it until you get home.. you do keep a couple of gallons of water in the trunk, right?

That's a good way to blow the rear bank's head gasket, since the front cylinder (cylinder 1, am fairly sure) there is in a spot that will easily get an airlock since the intake passage there is blind. Once the coolant goes low, the only way to get the air out of there is to use a vacuum airlift system or jack the front of the car three feet off the ground. Alternatively, on the '01-up engines with 8mm rocker bolts, the exhaust valve binds in the guide and the rocker yanks the threads out of the head. Don't get me wrong, I love these little engines, and have slowly but surely been collecting the parts to make a big cammed 13:1 screamer (including the good canted-valve heads that have 10mm rocker bolts!), but they don't really tolerate a laissez-faire attitude towards maintenance.

but at least you'll get home... i've run a few 3800's almost empty of coolant for various reasons- blown hose, blown radiator tank, blown intake gasket- but have never had one blow a head gasket or have any of those other problems due to an airlock after simply filling the radiator like any other car after fixing the problem... the supercharger on my 01 GTP did make some funny noises for a couple of days after the radiator blew out this summer and the temp gauge pegged about a half mile from home, but the noises stopped and that was over 10,000 miles ago so it's good to go...

The 3800, sure. You have to work hard to hurt a 3800. I've only had to do two of them - one a car that he let the upper intake gasket go until it hydrolocked the engine on startup (still ran okay, just had a light miss from being 50psi low on compression thanks to a short rod) and one that had no oil pressure, due to one of the cam bearings walking out. At 200k the main and rod bearings looked fine, the cylinders looked fine, and a quick pass of the bores with the CK-10 showed that they were still round and had no taper, so it got thrown back together with new cam bearings and new rings (because why not?).

The 3100/3400 though, has a few issues with the cooling system.

patgizz wrote:

Knurled wrote:

Vigo wrote: Most people don't like the DOHC 3.4. It has it's own WHY DID THEY DO IT THIS WAY?!!? issues.

I love the dummy shaft that you have to remove one of the cylinder heads to change the O-ring that leaks oil.

or you unclamp it, pop it up 1/4" till it hits the head, brakekleen it, slit your run of the mill chevy distributor gasket so it slides around the shaft, and crank it back down with a little RTV. i love me some 3.4 DOHC engine sounds. especially shifting at 6800 with a 5 speed. i miss my z34

you had a 5 speed Z34? i almost bought one once- on CL with a blowed up motor for $500- but decided that i hated the idea of working on anything on the engine more than i wanted one backed with a 5 speed... i will say, however, that the 3.4 powered 94 Lumina that i had was a fun car- it was faster than a 4 door grocery getter deserved to be and those 7000 rpm upshifts were kind of fun for an auto trans, but a best of 27mpg seemed kind of low for what it was... i think the supercharged 3800 in my '01 GTP would be fun in a 5 speed Z34...

Id love to drive one of those 5spd 3.4 cars but they are pretty much unicorns.

Having said that, just today i bought another unicorn 5spd car, but it's just a 132hp Dodge Stratus.