Tell me I'm crazy - MGB-GT "outlaw" project

Somebeach (Forum Supporter) said:

I don't know if you have seen the built official mg he is working on. 
 

If he wanted it to look like a Porsche, why didn't he just start with a Porsche?

Keith Tanner said:

Duke said:

DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

It's a mechanically sound car with lackluster cosmetics that he enjoys driving.

That is not any issue at all.  I'm all in on function over form.

It's the carefully, preciously lackluster cosmetics that I have a problem with.

But as you say, it is his car, not mine.

 

It's patina vs distressing.

Patina comes from regular use and care of a quality product over time.

Distressing is the intentional abuse of a product to give it the appearance of patina.

My Targa Miata has patina, it shows the result of being a hard working testbed and race car for over a decade. My MG (accidentally) is distressed as I destroyed the new paint by wetsanding it poorly. Using intentionally mis-matched body panels - ESPECIALLY with new paint - would also fall under distressing.

I do understand this. but I also have a pragmatic tendency to say that things are what they are, and how they became what they are is not as important as what they are. If I think red hoods look cool on white cars is the only 'legit' way for me to get that to crash my white car on track and then hit a junkyard on the way home where they only have a red hood so that I can drive to work on monday? 

Let's say I have 2 rusty jaguars. one got rusty sitting in a field and the other got rusty being driven in salt. Both look cool currently. Which is better? 

Let's say I intended to give my wife a nice gift (treadmill, kitchen gadget, vacuum cleaner, etc) but instead I hurt her feelings. Intent is important but it is much less important than effect. 

I really don't mind "distressed" items. I usually don't pay for pre-torn jeans, no, but i still think someone can look good wearing them. 

What about your third rusty Jaguar, the one where you took the paint off with a sander and then sprayed salt water on? That's the distressed one. It's the one pretending to be something it's not.

If you're choosing to paint your hood red because it looks good, go for it. Make your car look good. If you're painting it red and then abusing the paint so it looks like you hit a junkyard on the way home, that's pretending. If you're cool pretending, then go ahead and pretend. But be ready to be called out on your cosplay.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of the look of neglect. That's different than patina - if I leave a tool outside in the rain or buried in the dirt, it's neglected. If I use it for years, it will have a very different look.

Keith Tanner said:

What about your third rusty Jaguar, the one where you took the paint off with a sander and then sprayed salt water on? That's the distressed one. It's the one pretending to be something it's not.

If you're choosing to paint your hood red because it looks good, go for it. Make your car look good. If you're painting it red and then abusing the paint so it looks like you hit a junkyard on the way home, that's pretending. If you're cool pretending, then go ahead and pretend. But be ready to be called out on your cosplay.

Personally, I'm not a big fan of the look of neglect. That's different than patina - if I leave a tool outside in the rain or buried in the dirt, it's neglected. If I use it for years, it will have a very different look.

:golf clap:

Nail head, meet hammer.

The red hood on 277 is because he replaced the original steel hood (white with Brumos stripes) for a lighter fiberglass one that came in red, and he removed the whale tail trunk lid for a red one and just left them that way. In his book Magnus admits he doesn't understand why people like the car, he has several much nicer cars. It's his track car that he bought 22 years ago at the Pamona swap meet for $7500. He did paint the bumpers blue because he's a fan of Americana and he's glad he came to this country. It's the closest thing he has to a "beater", although the mechanical bits are all upgraded. The number 277 is simply the one he was assigned by POC for track days. He has whacked it once or twice, too, and repaired it because it's his personal favourite. I can understand all that and would do the same if I could.

If I were to change out my suspension but never go around a corner fast, would that be cosplay? Does that make that suspension mod a bad mod for OTHER PEOPLE who might also be considering it?

What about a shift knob? Wheels? Stereo? What about adding a bunch of gauges?

"but but but those mods make the car better!" you might say. Only in some people's eyes. If you think the suspension doesn't make the car better then he must be a hard parker. Chrome wheels too big and look heavy? Lifted truck with 4 doors, long bed, and DRW?

My point is that all mods are the same in that you are judging the mods against what you think the owner should be focused on. I view art and personal expression as the opposite, I view it as an opportunity to see the world through what other people see as important. 

Oh, and I did once make a challenge car by sanding all the paint off a 7 series BMW!

DeadSkunk (Warren) said:

The red hood on 277 is because he replaced the original steel hood (white with Brumos stripes) for a lighter fiberglass one that came in red, and he just left it that way. In his book Magnus admits he doesn't understand why people like the car, he has several much nicer cars. It's his track car that he bought 22 years ago at the Pamona swap meet for $7500. He did paint the bumpers blue because he's a fan of Americana and he's glad he came to this country. It's the closest thing he has to a "beater", although the mechanical bits are all upgraded. The number 277 is simply the one he was assigned by POC for track days. He has whacked it once or twice, too, and repaired it because it's his personal favourite. I can understand all that and would do the same if I could.

thanks for posting this! this is exaclty my point about how it is an opportunity to see the world through what Magnus thinks is important. 

And I think if some people weren't so quick to write it off, they might be interested to see that perspective as well. 

I think this guy might have stumbled on to Keith's blog and decided to do his own take on the game

Bit of the build

https://engineswapdepot.com/?p=29047

I was more in awe until I saw the build and realized that it is a lot of off the shelf stuff cool parts.

Body is Dave Cradock panels for the most part

Chassis is mostly stock

Front suspension is Fastcars by Ted

Rear is unnecessary but cool anyway.

Engine is crate

I fully do not endorse the rivets holding the floor in. Unless there is panel bond under the metal.

Correct me if I am wrong, but there is no cage in this thing

In reply to NOHOME :

are those miata mirrors?!? haha

Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to NOHOME :

are those miata mirrors?!? haha

Would appear to be, but the stalk does not look quite right. Too long.

Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:

If I were to change out my suspension but never go around a corner fast, would that be cosplay? Does that make that suspension mod a bad mod for OTHER PEOPLE who might also be considering it?

What about a shift knob? Wheels? Stereo? What about adding a bunch of gauges?

"but but but those mods make the car better!" you might say. Only in some people's eyes. If you think the suspension doesn't make the car better then he must be a hard parker. Chrome wheels too big and look heavy? Lifted truck with 4 doors, long bed, and DRW?

My point is that all mods are the same in that you are judging the mods against what you think the owner should be focused on. I view art and personal expression as the opposite, I view it as an opportunity to see the world through what other people see as important. 

Oh, and I did once make a challenge car by sanding all the paint off a 7 series BMW!

All good questions.

As long as you know why you're doing what you're doing. If the goal is to misrepresent, I'm going to have a lower opinion of the end result than if the goal is art. And I am not going to get into a discussion of "everything's art if you say it is duuuude", but simply copying a look is certainly further away from art than creating a look or being inspired by it :) This is an opinion by some random dude expressed on an internet message forum, and it is worth exactly what you paid for it.

Marcus apparently got that red hood because it was the best way to get where he wanted to go. It was function driven, although remember this is a guy who got rich via fashion so you know the aesthetic was not accidental and he has decided to keep it red despite taking care with the rest of the car's appearance. Possibly he's honoring the heritage, possibly it's a carefully crafted image. I am a bit skeptical, I think it's the latter and part of the schtick. Painting the hood of another car red specifically to look like Marcus' car is a different matter, it's dressing up without even bothering to carefully craft anything. And yes, I know I have a car that wears Martini livery but was never sponsored by Martini. But at least it's a unique variant designed to work with the car, and it's been copied at least once.

NOHOME said:

Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to NOHOME :

are those miata mirrors?!? haha

Would appear to be, but the stalk does not look quite right. Too long.

I'm going to say they're Miata power mirrors on a pedestal to get them somewhere where they actually work. Lots of interesting things to look at on that car.

Keith Tanner said:

And yes, I know I have a car that wears Martini livery but was never sponsored by Martini. 

I mean, cosplay is FUN isn't it?

Also, I'm waiting for Duke to come in and echo your thoughts again. 

Somebody please do this with an MGB so that I do not have to! It would be a piece of cake. Just one big floorpan repair panel

The wheelbases are almost exact and  you could literally  leave the Miata as a running chassis wile doing the costume change. I think it would work better with a roadster because the fuel tank would blend in better and you still keep the trunk.

If more power is needed, Miata turbo stuff is inexpensive.

I'd say just do what you want.  I'm sure I'll get called a poser once I fit these to my B GT (yes the tire is painted, new ones will be mounted on the weekend, and the paint job is crap):

Then again, my Zetec powered Europa sports a Cosworth styled cam cover, yet many people dont seem to mind.

In reply to NOHOME :

I considered it extensively but the width is holding me back. IIRC it would need like 6 inches of flare per side. Which also probably means the miata rockers are hanging out in space like pontoons on either side of the mgb doors.

Edit, mgb 5 ft wide, 49inch track width. Miata 5.5 ft wide, 56inch track width. 

So 3-3.5 inches either side, may not be as bad as I thought, but I still think would be hard because of the way the mgb rockers curl under the car and the miata ones don't.

In reply to RoddyMac17 :

Awesome! I have a very similar idea in mind for my wheels.

Robbie (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to NOHOME :

I considered it extensively but the width is holding me back. IIRC it would need like 6 inches of flare per side. Which also probably means the miata rockers are hanging out in space like pontoons on either side of the mgb doors.

For reference, my car has Miata track widths along with basically stock size Miata wheels/tires. 

If I were to do an "outlaw B/GT"  the extreme version  would be a group B rendition. Major box flares, snowplow splitter,  rear spoiler ala WRX/STI and the top of the roof foil......all on a syclone/typhoon  drive train sporting a mild 500+ all wheel HP.

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

So much "hold my beer "want! Since I do own an MGB and kind of a Miata, I am convinced this would be a cake-walk. 

Keith's MGB hides stock miata track width. I would want to maybe use the wider Miata sills to blend into the required flares.. The whole project is a creative problem solving opportunity.

The only part I have not noodled is the front for rad fitment and how I might keep the HVAC with AC intact. 

If I lived in the land of rust free Miata donors, this would be in the que already. Unfortunately Rust free miata donors with cosmetic damage are rare in Canada.

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

I would think that grafting the Miata rollerskate would an easier way to graft Miata suspension under a MGB

Man, if I'd known that picture was going to be used for so long I would have taken more care with it :) I think it's from 2005...

My original plan was to use a Miata front subframe, but I realized that it would be just as much work to make attachment points for the subframe as it would be to simply duplicate the control arm pickup points on the car. Someone on this forum did a partial install of the rear subframe on a GT and it could work. 

In reply to Robbie (Forum Supporter) :

I don't want you to take this next part wrong, because you obviously do not have a poser mentality. If you want a white MGB with a red hood... go for it!.

But I do agree with the things Keith is saying about the fake torn jeans mentality. A couple of his posts had the wording of the definitions down perfect. He tried to rebut the scenarios you proposed, and sorta failed, but then that was the point of the scenarios! Without picking out exactly how a car becomes a purposely torn jean car, its a look that can kinda be seen. Some crossover, because everyone likes different stuff. Most folks these days (especially certain segments, use patina and distressed interchangeably. Keith nailed that one with the well used wrench / rusty neglected wrench.

I very seldom like patina, but there are a few that have pulled it off. Intentionally torn jean cars... no. Some women (and I imagine men, for anyone that like to look at men) look good in either - but usually look good in most things!

I got really inebriated on night in my shop and woke up to a CJ-7 that was painted with chrome spray paint with the worst looking gloss black flames you've ever seen. I drove the snot out of it.

I say do what you want and berkeley the naysayers.

I never saw the Porsche similarity before, but I kinda do after ya mention it. Not much, but I get it.

Now THAT...

really starts to look like one!!! Love the hugh meats in the back, but the back view is pretty bad. Don't know how their gonna pull that together.