Tell me why I am stupid - 2nd car decisions

Well, logic has finally stepped in and it looks like the Miata is not really a good idea. Premium gas, 30 mpg, relatively high insurance, plus a car payment adds up to quite an unneeded financial mess. Especially that last part.

I could snag a DD Saturn (the default because I have so much experience with them) for $1-3k that would last years with very little maintenance and return ~33 combined on regular gas. But it wont have any damn character.

Knowing that I can't leave any car alone ever, I would probably end up modifying it. My guess would be 17x7.5 wheels, coil-overs, widened rear track, etc. Basically a slammed wagon that still handles pretty well. I'd probably use it as a development platform for several aftermarket components (anything I can't put on the autox car due to STS rules) such as longer lateral links, hub spacers, etc. Also, because it wont conform to any autox rules, it allows me to experiment with different engine options: A low boost turbo setup for fuel economy, a built NA motor using stock components, etc.

But something tells me that's not enough character. Its still a plastic station wagon with a stiff suspension, sticky tires, and maybe a some more power. Somehow today the idea of the old slant six popped back into my head. A slant powered car (Aspen, Volare, Valiant, Dart, Duster, etc) can be had for around $1500 in running condition. This engine has next to zero aftermarket support, weighs like 9 tons and makes around 7 horsepower. It has character. I was tossing around the idea of a custom manifold for a bigger car and a blow through turbo setup, or maybe even a full EFI setup. A 70s chrysler costs nothing to insure. It has no emissions regulations. 25mpg highway is about what I'm looking at with a stock motor in good tune. At 12k miles a year I figure the difference in cost is actually minimal, unless gas prices skyrocket (even more). The downside is, even once the engine is built, it takes a lot of work to this chassis to make it handle whatsoever (coming from an STS autocrosser), and there is the problem of rust - even with a VA car.

I'm hoping that this idea passes. I have a ton of projects as it is. But I have always wanted to do a turbo/efi slant. Now I have the tools and financial means to do so. Somebody talk me out of this.

No....don't do it.....

Sorry, I tried, the idea is just crazy enough that I can't discourage it.

ProDarwin wrote: This engine has next to zero aftermarket support,

Then I suppose I shouldn't show you this. Last I knew, Turbo City still offered a turbo kit for the 170-225 cars.:)

Enjoy the obsession.

ProDarwin wrote: Well, logic has finally stepped in and it looks like the Miata is not really a good idea. Premium gas, 30 mpg, relatively high insurance, plus a car payment adds up to quite an unneeded financial mess. Especially that last part.

Uh, Miata's take regular 87 octane? 30mpg vs 33mpg? Insurance isn't high, might be higher then a saturn, but by no means is it high. Car payment? You can buy a miata for 3k.

There are lots of reasons not to buy a miata, just not the ones you listed.

You are stupid because: - A saturn is a heinous abomination, basically a modern day 70s era Chrysler but in place of fake wood stickers they put plastic

• 70s Chrysler products were even more shoddy than they are now

• The slant 6 is actually pretty great but it weighs more than the entire miata.

• Even if you mortgage your house - the Miata will still out-handle either given equal $ input

• miatas don't need premium fuel or cost a boatload to insure

• You can sell a miata for about what you paid if you don't ball it up

• A miata probably won;t break down, the other two most likely will

If you have the ability to tube-chassis the Aspen and put Howe bits wherever there was a hub or ball joint... and you have a Trans-Am motor lying around then disregard. You are a bloody genius.

yea, you can pick up a NICE miata for not much money. As always, the answer is Miata

I think Miata is probably the way to go but I am a master of irrationality myself so I can't advise. My lease is about half way through on my Jetta, though, and as great a car as it has been, I think moving forward I wouold like to do something different for a daily driver. I find this image strangely inspiring. Although not an Aspen, it certainly gives some good ideas abot how to freshen the appearance of an older car and bring out the lines. This, I think, is an LTD of the 80's, but it actually looks sharp and somewhat Volvo-esque. I love this pic, sorry.

Note that I said the Miata (an '03 I was considering buying off my father). It does require premium, and it is more expensive to insure. And car payments suck.

The slant idea is still floating around in my head, but every time I see a gas pump it fades a little more.

Sure, do the Saturn. Slammed wagons are awesome. This could be you.

I was leaning toward this:

Minus the body kit, and that saturn would be cool.

Joey

joey48442 wrote: Minus the body kit, and that saturn would be cool.

Minus the body kit that would be a Saturn. No one would have taken the picture.

What are these crazy car insurance companies you use? My miata was the cheapest car I've ever insured. And I was 18 when I had it!

Also, aside from a few freaks, miatae do just fine on regular gas.

skruffy wrote: What are these crazy car insurance companies you use? My miata was the cheapest car I've ever insured. And I was 18 when I had it! Also, aside from a few freaks, miatae do just fine on regular gas.

I was looking at an '03. Full coverage. Its pricey compared to old shitty cars. I'm not really interested in old Miatas.

Don't let the price of Premium Gas and needing higher octane stop you from buying.

Gas has increased to $4 per gallon but octane has never gone up in price. Why is it that when gas was $0.99 per gallon it looked like this:

Reg: $0.99 Mid: $1.09 Prem: $1.19

Now gas is $4.00: Reg: $4.00 Mid: $4.09 Prem: $4.19

It sure make premium look cheap. It seems more like it should be: Reg: $4.00 Mid: $4.40 Prem: $4.80

I would have taken a picture...I love wagons, and dont mind Saturns a bit! I just dont like body kits, in general.

Joey

jrw1621 wrote: Don't let the price of Premium Gas and needing higher octane stop you from buying. Gas has increased to $4 per gallon but octane has never gone up in price. Why is it that when gas was $0.99 per gallon it looked like this: Reg: $0.99 Mid: $1.09 Prem: $1.19 Now gas is $4.00: Reg: $4.00 Mid: $4.09 Prem: $4.19 It sure make premium look cheap. It seems more like it should be: Reg: $4.00 Mid: $4.40 Prem: $4.80

Ive tried to figure the same thing out. It doesnt make any sense.

Joey

Because the cost of refining gas and the additives hasn't really changed (the difference between 87 and 93). The cost of the raw oil has.

mattmacklind wrote: I think Miata is probably the way to go but I am a master of irrationality myself so I can't advise. My lease is about half way through on my Jetta, though, and as great a car as it has been, I think moving forward I wouold like to do something different for a daily driver. I find this image strangely inspiring. Although not an Aspen, it certainly gives some good ideas abot how to freshen the appearance of an older car and bring out the lines. This, I think, is an LTD of the 80's, but it actually looks sharp and somewhat Volvo-esque. I love this pic, sorry.

You are correct - it's probably around an '84 or so. It's pulled off of the omnipresent Fox chassis, which means it is all Mustang compatible underneath.

I had one for two months back in the day as a rental when my 142E got t-boned by an Impala and I was waiting for the insurance company to settle with me. Gas mileage with the 302 wasn't spectacular in mixed driving - I seem to recall it got in the high teens to low twenties, but overall it wasn't bad for a bland piece of transportation.

joey48442 wrote: Ive tried to figure the same thing out. It doesnt make any sense. Joey

Because the cost of the additives between the three grades is pretty inexpensive and the bulk of the pricing is marketing. The advantage is that if you own a vehicle that can adapt (via timing changes) to the quality of fuel you use, there can be some extra miles/gallon in premium.

No premium will not give you extra performance or mileage on it's own. However, some vehicles can adjust to use it, so it may make sense. Our 05 Volvo XC90 runs more cost effectively on premium at about $3.25/gallon, with a $0.20 cost difference between 87 and 92 octane. We proved it out over 4,000 mile back to back testing of regular, premium, regular and back to premium. We got slightly better COST/mile with premium. At nearly $4/gallon, it definitely makes sense. I doubt my Malibu will perform the same, but I'll be checking it out soon, once I figure out the ingition/timing system GM used.

Jack

You guys should know I couldn't ignore this. :) The slant six's aftermarket is not the greatest, and I'd actually recommend avoiding Clifford for customer service issues. I'd advise anyone building a turbo slant six to set aside plenty of time as you'll need to do a lot of the work from scratch, but it can definitely be rewarding. Besides which, most of the '70s Chryslers with build quality problems are all dead. :nice: They had some good designs but really bad QC.

Is fun and sanity really worth 3mpg? When you have a fun car gas is like fun juice and the price doesn't hurt so much. I don't know about other cars but these 80's Toyotas I buy pick up 2-3mpg on the highway with intake and exhaust mods.