Tell me why I'm stupid for wanting an Exocet?

Acceptable track day safety standards are very different over the pond

Please note. Stock Westfield ‘roll’ bar, below drivers head, no diagonal, no bracing. I know from having seen cars like that you can move it back and forwards by hand. Locost track day, note another Westie in the back ground. A proper roll bar this time, but well below the drivers head. Track day MX5. NO ROLL BAR AT ALL WITH WHAT LOOKS LIKE A KID IN THE PASSENGER SEAT Style bar, well below drivers head Note the front car, on the track, in traffic, no roll bar with a passenger again And of course, over in Germany we have the Nurburgring, no roll bar, no helmet, no nothing. And yes I was one of those attempted murderers who took his whole family round the ring with no helmets on in my C30

Now Excocet's have been on track with those stock bars But they have also been out there with real protection too.

I've been considering this for a while. My '99 is at 120k and will likely be retired to track-only/fun-car duty in the not-too-distant future. At that point I have to decide whether a few grand in upgrades trades against the kit price, and if another project fits into the timeframe.

A few comments/opinions:

-The concept is great: cheap, simple, easy kit car. High performance through light weight.

-The value proposition for building one in the US isn't as good as in the UK. The kit cost here is roughly 50% more than there, after shipping and paying US distrutor.

-Many people complain on the appearance, but to me it is a track tool and I dig the minimalist approach.

-I haven't seen one in person, but from internet pictures the construction quality appears to be in line with its cost - not great but good enough.

-The "M" rollbar is a no-go, and even the upgraded "MSA" rollbar scares me for the track the way it is fixed to the car (bolted to corner plates which are fillet welded and loaded in bending). It is also very narrow. I would order one with the bolt-in rollbar, throw it away, and weld in an integral bar right to the main chassis spars.

-Some of the chassis fabrication, particularly in the front strut area, looks like it could be improved. Most likely could be fixed prior to paint or powdercoat.

-The requirement to run huge wheel spacers in order for the fender stays to fit right is silly, and adds risk on the track. Maybe this has been fixed.

-I would probably go for the lightweight option (ditches the Miata subframes), but it isn't cheap

Realistically to finish one here with decent parts you are getting up close to 818R territory price-wise. The 818 is heaver, consumable costs will be higher, but has a lot of growth potential. Also looks safer.

93EXCivic wrote: Just cause you can doesn't mean you should. Personally I would rather have 7 clone though.

100% agree that just because you can you shouldn't. I wouldn't, but I was just showing it's not a massive design flaw of the Exocet when viewed in context with the standards of Europe where it's designed and built.

Personaly I would rather have an Exocet than a 7 clone though

MattGent wrote: I've been considering this for a while. My '99 is at 120k and will likely be retired to track-only/fun-car duty in the not-too-distant future. At that point I have to decide whether a few grand in upgrades trades against the kit price, and if another project fits into the timeframe. A few comments/opinions: -The concept is great: cheap, simple, easy kit car. High performance through light weight. -The value proposition for building one in the US isn't as good as in the UK. The kit cost here is roughly 50% more than there, after shipping and paying US distrutor. -Many people complain on the appearance, but to me it is a track tool and I dig the minimalist approach. -I haven't seen one in person, but from internet pictures the construction quality appears to be in line with its cost - not great but good enough. -The "M" rollbar is a no-go, and even the upgraded "MSA" rollbar scares me for the track the way it is fixed to the car (bolted to corner plates which are fillet welded and loaded in bending). It is also very narrow. I would order one with the bolt-in rollbar, throw it away, and weld in an integral bar right to the main chassis spars. -Some of the chassis fabrication, particularly in the front strut area, looks like it could be improved. Most likely could be fixed prior to paint or powdercoat. -The requirement to run huge wheel spacers in order for the fender stays to fit right is silly, and adds risk on the track. Maybe this has been fixed. -I would probably go for the lightweight option (ditches the Miata subframes), but it isn't cheap Realistically to finish one here with decent parts you are getting up close to 818R territory price-wise. The 818 is heaver, consumable costs will be higher, but has a lot of growth potential. Also looks safer.

Don't forget that roll bar is deemed safe by the MSA, and from what I've seen racing is far more of a contact sport in the UK than here. If it's safe enough for racing in the UK, it's fine for me in track days here. It's not just this car that bolts the cage to plates on the chassis. Check out the dozens of racing Fury's etc in the UK, they all do it htat way and trust me, they've been 'crash' tested

The Sonic 7 by MEV seems to be reviewing well also. I've always been interested in the Brunton Stalker and their new car with IRS etc looks even better (performance not style wise)

My plan if I did do the exocet route was to take it to Blackbird Fabworx and likely have them work on the rollbar/cage anyway since even the US distributors much improved rollbar wont pass a broomstick test

Adrian_Thompson wrote: It's not just this car that bolts the cage to plates on the chassis. Check out the dozens of racing Fury's etc in the UK, they all do it htat way and trust me, they've been 'crash' tested

I won't be trusting you, nor this flimsy bracket, with my noggin:

Pic is of their standard rollbar, with optional harness bar. The MSA bar itself is fine, the way it attaches to the car may meet their standards but not mine.

http://www.mevowners.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=exocet&thread=727&page=1

Clearly we're a bunch of nanny-staters here!

I like the Exocet in many ways, but style's not one of them. But it's kind of silly to debate something that's so personal. As for the roll bar, I'd be embarrased to sport the style bar. My friends would literally laugh at me for that. I supose that it's better than nothing, but not a lot. Hit youtube sometime and search under Locost or Lotus 7 crashes. Then think about that bar.

BoxheadTim wrote:

Adrian_Thompson wrote: You can order it with a real roll bar and or roll cage too. Those style bars are fore well, style. That’s what it comes with std. Note that they seem perfectly acceptable for track days and HPDE’s in the UK. I’ve seen many and surprisingly millions of people have not died as a result.

Keep in mind that they let you run in a convertible without any rollbar in the UK though - I've run my turbo'd Miata just with the roof up, no hardtop or rollbar like it's required here.

Like Adrian posted, our local track is very lax, you can run a convertible without the top or a roll bar or anything.

My minimum is a roll bar, fixed back seats and harnesses.

Now what was pointed out on the roll bar makes it essentially a no-go for me. I'd have to order it unfinished, have a buddy fab me up something proper, then pay to have it powdercoated.........

z31maniac wrote: ^They are easy to find, but that's good to know. Does that stand true if you add cams and plan to spin it to 7500+

You decide. Red is the square top.

As for my comments on quality of the Exocet - the Westfield importer did look at picking up the MEV line back in 2010 when the Exocet first came out. After looking into the cars and the company, he decided not to. I believe some of that came from interactions with the company owner, who apparently was not the easiest guy to deal with. Since I wasn't the one who was doing the research, I don't have any first-hand knowledge. I'd still check it out fairly carefully though.

As for Locosts, I agree it's possible to get into the uncanny valley where they're almost like an original Seven but not really. The biggest difference that most people don't notice is the location of the scuttle, it's much further forward in a Locost. I'm actually tempted to move mine back someday. Of course, poorly chosen headlights, badly executed bodywork and the like don't help.

And Westfield roll bars? We don't recommend that standard bar at all, it's a complete joke. Mostly useful as a towel rack, you can't even use it to push the car around.

That's not the same rollbar as the US one?

Oh, you can get the standard useless bar if you want it. But for an extra $175 or so, you can get this. It's the RAC bar, available everywhere Westfields are sold.

Keith Tanner wrote:

z31maniac wrote: ^They are easy to find, but that's good to know. Does that stand true if you add cams and plan to spin it to 7500+

You decide. Red is the square top.

Interesting. So 6 speed, cams, 8k+ rev limit seems the only way it would really be beneficial..........

You don't by chance have a set of ITB's on the same setup to compare to, do ya?

As a matter of fact, I do. That previous dyno chart was the VTCS manifold vs the square top. Here's the VICS (red) vs square top.

And VICS vs ITBs.

MattGent wrote:

Adrian_Thompson wrote: It's not just this car that bolts the cage to plates on the chassis. Check out the dozens of racing Fury's etc in the UK, they all do it htat way and trust me, they've been 'crash' tested

I won't be trusting you, nor this flimsy bracket, with my noggin: Pic is of their standard rollbar, with optional harness bar. The MSA bar itself is fine, the way it attaches to the car may meet their standards but not mine. http://www.mevowners.proboards.com/index.cgi?action=display&board=exocet&thread=727&page=1

Hold ya horses there boy. I never said I would use the style bar. I just pointed out that standards are different there than here. What I did defend was the bolt in nature of the full MSA roll cage and that many other race cars use the same type of bolt in system.

I would not use the style bar on the track or with a harness. On the street it's no worse than any small covnertable 2 seater with a style bar or no bar at all. I never had a roll bar of any type in my Miata and I lived!

Keith Tanner wrote: As a matter of fact, I do. That previous dyno chart was the VTCS manifold vs the square top. Here's the VICS (red) vs square top. And VICS vs ITBs.

Would mind sharing what else is done to that engine as a comparison point? Displacement, headwork, cams, etc?

I'm loving the real data.

irish44j wrote: oh, I thought you were talking about a cruise missile. me = military mindset, lol

Appleseed wrote: Are you planning to take out some British warships?

My thoughts exactly as well........I think I'd rather have the missles.

z31maniac wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: As a matter of fact, I do. That previous dyno chart was the VTCS manifold vs the square top. Here's the VICS (red) vs square top. And VICS vs ITBs.

Would mind sharing what else is done to that engine as a comparison point? Displacement, headwork, cams, etc? I'm loving the real data.

FM stroker 2020cc, 11.4:1 compression, VVT, stock cams (I think), oversize valves, headwork, valvesprings, Hydra Nemesis. Basically, a crate FM stroker motor with all the boxes checked. Or, in other words, it's a twin to my old Targa motor with the addition of VVT and stock cams.

The ITBs are an Extrudabody setup that I don't think is commercially available but you could assemble a set from bits and pieces.

I didn't know what an exocet was, first thing I googled popped up a missile. Boy howdy that's an ugly little dude. I like the concept, but Locost/Lotus 7's look a deal better IMO.

It looks like a Lotus 7 and a Ariel Atom had an affair.

Keith Tanner wrote:

z31maniac wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: As a matter of fact, I do. That previous dyno chart was the VTCS manifold vs the square top. Here's the VICS (red) vs square top. And VICS vs ITBs.

Would mind sharing what else is done to that engine as a comparison point? Displacement, headwork, cams, etc? I'm loving the real data.

FM stroker 2020cc, 11.4:1 compression, VVT, stock cams (I think), oversize valves, headwork, valvesprings, Hydra Nemesis. Basically, a crate FM stroker motor with all the boxes checked. Or, in other words, it's a twin to my old Targa motor with the addition of VVT and stock cams. The ITBs are an Extrudabody setup that I don't think is commercially available but you could assemble a set from bits and pieces.

Interesting, so the FM stroker with a set of cams could be a legit ~200whp engine.

I just don't have the $$$ to check all the boxes.

I don't have a problem with bolt-in rollbars on principle, only poorly executed ones. My Miata, and most others at the track, have them.

The MSA bar bolts in on the foot plates exactly the same as the stylebar shown above. I suspect in a rollover it would look a lot like this bolt-in rollbar:

http://jalopnik.com/5390929/mustang-crash-gallery/gallery/8

That's my local track! With a CarFX prepped vehicle...........I do my own work for a reason.

In reply to z31maniac: well lets be honest carfx is a complete joke imo.

PAGING GRM STAFF, pagin GRM staff, You owe it to us to get your hands on a US spec Exocet for a test drive and write up. There are several in the country.

There is always V8 power for one. Toss in a 302 SBF like the Aussies do!

The exocet looks like poop imo