Terrible Shifting Transmissions

T56 in a Fox body Mustang.

It wasn't just "stiff and notchy", it felt like the trans was fighting change of any type and actively hated you.

There's a political comment in there that I won't make.

Test drove a new WRX in 2013 and I was going to chalk up the non existent feel and chunky/grinding feel up to it being new until I test drove a friends that was well taken care of, not a fan.

Was also never a fan of almost any ranger past the 90s, mostly because it felt like they took a long ass metal rod and put it in a box filled with liquid rubber and just enough space on the sides to move it around but squeak like 2 mice berkeleying, and shifting into 1/3/5 always felt like you were going to punch the dash.

Oh, and another one.

SanFord has a horrid gear box. 1st and 2nd are literally 2 feet apart. 2nd and 3rd are in different zip codes.

Holler all you wan't, he's probably getting a automatic.

Joe Gearin wrote: There's a couple of cars that I really like, but can't get past the horrid shift linkage feel: Porsche 914 Alfa GTV-V6 In both cases the shifter had nearly no feel at all---- like a drummer's stick in a bowl of jello. Am I in first? Third? Reverse? Who knows. As far as modern-ish cars are concerned, I was amazed at how notchy and gritty the Sentra SE-R V-Spec felt. Perhaps we had a bad example here at GRM HQ---- but it sucked badly.

I was gonna say Spec V as well. Although a short shifter and poly bushings helped, the shift from 5 to 6 had a slight right drift to it. Straight down didn't hit 6th, you had to go down and over, which took you perilously close to reverse, which, coincidentally, had no lock out in the '02. Nothing kills your car-guy vibe quite like nicking the edge of reverse on the way to 6th. I didn't use 6th a lot because shifting into it felt like trying to put the pin back in a grenade.

Knurled wrote: T56 in a Fox body Mustang. It wasn't just "stiff and notchy", it felt like the trans was fighting change of any type and actively hated you. There's a political comment in there that I won't make.

Yea, the T56 in my Crammit sucked balls with the stock shifter. I've probably missed the 2-3 upshift with that thing 100+ times.

Put an MGW shifter in and it made all the difference. Delicate it was not, you pretty much slammed it into every gear, but much more precise and it never missed a shift.

kazoospec wrote: Straight down didn't hit 6th, you had to go down and over, which took you perilously close to reverse, which, coincidentally, had no lock out in the '02. Nothing kills your car-guy vibe quite like nicking the edge of reverse on the way to 6th. I didn't use 6th a lot because shifting into it felt like trying to put the pin back in a grenade.

Anyone who ever had a Volkswagen with an 020 nods in understanding.

Between inevitable linkage slop (there were something like three bellcranks and six ball pivots in the linkage) and the possibility of overcoming the somewhat weak shifter interlock, any downshift to 1st gear could be fraught with peril.

I still vividly remember when a certain rallycrosser with an A3 GTI (he drives a Tag Heuer now...) went for a 2-1 shift while divebombing a hard brake into a tight corner and the trans went CRUNCH into Reverse and he let off the clutch and it looked like the car stood on its front bumper. And forevermore, that trans went clank-clank-clank when he backed up, since the 020 shifts into Reverse by actually sliding a gear into position, so he effed up gearteeth and not just a synchronizer hub.

All this said, I don't think long throws or a little slop are a problem. Heck, I like a bit of slop in a shift mechanism, it allows a shift across the gate to be a straight line. And I despite short throw shifters with a passion, I don't need less hand motion, I need more leverage against the mechanism. Especially when the clutch doesn't disengage fully because of questionable linkage and/or pressure plate design and you have to force it into gear. I call it "crowbarring it into gear".

That is why that T56 sucked so bad. It had a short throw shifter on it. Great, it's only 2" to go from gear to gear. Too bad you need both hands to do it.

First let me say that I am a Subaru guy. I have owned more Subarus than any other brand and all 5 speeds manuals . I love them.

But...

The shifting is crap. Unless you become one with how horrible it is and learn the Subie Force, it is just crap.

Now there are worse that I can think of but those are antiques and I dont think it is fair to compare a 50 year old 3 speed to a modern Japanese technology

In all fairness it is mostly due to all of the drive train slack and the sloppy shift linkage. I am currently build a custom Subaru platform thing and plan to make the linkage and drive train much tighter so we will see...

I own an s2000. Everything else shifts like hammered E36 M3 in comparison.

Oh, and I thought the shift feel in my Subaru was awesome. Go figure.

It's funny to me reading all the comments about vague shift patterns. It has never even registered to me as being a problem or even undesirable. LOL

The Xterra is definitely a truck transmission, but it does have a very definite pattern to it and a good firm feel to the stick, it's just real hard to downshift without heel-toe and 1st and 3rd like to fight you no matter what direction you're shifting or how you fanagle the pedals.

Floating gears is an absurd fantasy.

Knurled wrote: T56 in a Fox body Mustang. It wasn't just "stiff and notchy", it felt like the trans was fighting change of any type and actively hated you. There's a political comment in there that I won't make.

LOL!

I don't think I've ever had the pleasure of handling a T-56. Glad to hear I'm not missing much.

And I totally agree with you on short shifters.

914 with a tail shifter is not great. My arm is just barely long enough for the throw from 2-3. Side shifter is much better, also not great.

Miata with Bill's short shifter in it is a thing of tactile excellence. Shifter in an XKE is all ate up with awesomeness too, but the transmission sort of makes for a tight squeeze on your feet.

The Chrysler/Mercedes NSG370.
I have one in my 2012 Wrangler. I specifically sought out a 6 speed Jeep because OMGMANUALTRANS. I felt that it would be more enjoyable to drive over the WA580 5 speed auto and get better gas mileage (hahaha!). In Europe, its essentally a commercial lorry transmission. Its like driving a tractor. You have to shift slow and deliberate because it complains if you shift too fast. Finding reverse is tricky sometimes and I've hit the reverse lockout a couple of times on the highway. Also, I have never in my life seen a trans mounted shifter lever move so much while in gear. I thought it was defective when I drove it over rough pavement the fist time; the whole shifter arm moves side to side about 4 inches on road irregularities, swinging the shift knob around like a ball and chain flail. I learned real quick to not keep your hand near the shifter as it smacks your knuckles with enough force to bust one open. The shifter dust seal is very stiff and causes the shifter to pop out of first/third gear when its cold outside.

I guess they use the same transmission in the Crossfire but I've never driven one.

I should of swallowed my pride (or stubborness?) and just bought one with the auto (which is actually a decent slushbox)

I don't remember the jeep being quite that bad...just that it was a weird combination of notchy and rubbery at the same time. Might have been from that rubber shift boot.

My NV3500 shifted horribly until I replaced the engine and transmission mounts. The driveline would rock so much during a throttle lift that it made it pretty hard to figure out where the next gear was going to end up by the time it all unwound.

Most annoying shifter was a 2012 STi with a short shifter on it. Super stiff and notchy, and basically impossible to be sure if you were in 3rd or 4th. At least 1, 2, 5, and 6 are at the corners of the pattern.

Lots of slop doesn't really bother me depending on the car. The lemons E30 has a pretty worn out linkage and a stock shifter with long throws, but it always catches the gear I'm going for, and always feels happy doing it.

I'm either immune, have never driven an awful one, or have never driven a great one. Once I road-tripped a 71 Corvette home with a bud and the gates for first and third were really close, so we just skipped third, but that's about all I got.

Knurled wrote: And I despite short throw shifters with a passion, I don't need less hand motion, I need more leverage against the mechanism.

I've solved this on my BMW. I bought the car with a short shifter and I hated it. I installed a very tall shift knob on it, like 4" taller than stock. Now it's got the crispness of the short shifter but nice long throws and low force shifting. Plus it moves the shifter higher up and closer to your hand on the wheel.

My VW Corrado came equipped with a manual gearbag.

Just reach in the bag, feel around, pull one out and see what you get.

Maybe the shift ropes were just loose?

My Saturn Astra's 5-speed stick was described by Motor Trend as "a chicken leg stuck in a jar of marbles". Clunkiest shifter I've ever touched. Extra long clutch throw. Easy to miss gears. And the darn thing just won't go into 1st gear in the winter. You have to edge it into 2nd then slam it forward into 1st at every stoplight until the trans oil has warmed up. It's much better in the summer. Some owners have switched to a different trans oil with good results, especially for winter.

VW beetles (the real ones) have been accused of having bad shifting transmissions, but the three I owned or drove a lot were fine. Easiest manual cars I've ever driven.

kazoospec wrote:

Joe Gearin wrote: There's a couple of cars that I really like, but can't get past the horrid shift linkage feel: Porsche 914 Alfa GTV-V6 In both cases the shifter had nearly no feel at all---- like a drummer's stick in a bowl of jello. Am I in first? Third? Reverse? Who knows. As far as modern-ish cars are concerned, I was amazed at how notchy and gritty the Sentra SE-R V-Spec felt. Perhaps we had a bad example here at GRM HQ---- but it sucked badly.

I was gonna say Spec V as well. Although a short shifter and poly bushings helped, the shift from 5 to 6 had a slight right drift to it. Straight down didn't hit 6th, you had to go down and over, which took you perilously close to reverse, which, coincidentally, had no lock out in the '02. Nothing kills your car-guy vibe quite like nicking the edge of reverse on the way to 6th. I didn't use 6th a lot because shifting into it felt like trying to put the pin back in a grenade.

The transmission in the Spec V was horrible, I never nicked reverse while going into 6th, but I did downshift into 4th gear thinking I was going into 6th and I remember that slight drift. I also had problems shifting into 5th from 4th. Shifter felt really mechanical and clanky, but didnt have any smoothness to it.

On other cars, I really don't like stock modern VW shifters, throws are long and after some mileage is put into them, the shifter becomes vague and most of my friend's VWs with the stock unit feels very loose. It was really noticeable on warm hot days vs cooler days I've put a dieselgeek on my car and its improved the issues I've had with the unit.

I actually don't mind the AX15 in my XJ, for what it is. Yea the throws are long and there's slop in the linkage, but it doesn't feel horrible and always finds the gear I want. I've driven TJs with the NV3500 and recall feeling similarly about that box.

Now, the 3 speed auto in my buddy's old 4 banger YJ on the other hand...

Any Dodge truck trans, but the old 12v and 24v diesels were especially hateful. Long, high effort throw coupled with zero feel and vague gates. You'd literally have to press it against the gate until it synched up and decide to let you into gear.

The T-56 is a weird one, I feel like there was a definite evolution of that trans. The F-bodies and C5 vette were pretty terrible, but I absolutely loved the T-56 in my first gen CTS-V.

spitfirebill wrote: VW beetles (the real ones) have been accused of having bad shifting transmissions, but the three I owned or drove a lot were fine. Easiest manual cars I've ever driven.

They've all shifted better than any Porsche 915 transmission I've ever driven.

calteg wrote: Any Dodge truck trans, but the old 12v and 24v diesels were especially hateful. Long, high effort throw coupled with zero feel and vague gates. You'd literally have to press it against the gate until it synched up and decide to let you into gear. The T-56 is a weird one, I feel like there was a definite evolution of that trans. The F-bodies and C5 vette were pretty terrible, but I absolutely loved the T-56 in my first gen CTS-V.

The 6-speed in my 2010 Dodge diesel is really good. Long throw, but precise and easy. I can't see anyone complaining about it other than the heavy spring reverse lockout.

The T56 has definitely evolved - your CTS-V MAY have had a T6060, which is a better shifting version at high RPM. I've got a lot of seat time with the T56s and I don't find them bad with a stock GM shifter. Worse with aftermarket ones. They do shift better the harder you shift, so they're happier on track than tootling around town. To me, they just feel like a burlier version of the Miata trans.