In reply to bcp2011 :
That was my first thought - installing a 50A 220V outlet for a plug-in fast charger is pretty easy. It would be very easy for me, but it depends on the house and whether or not the electrical panel can accept an additional circuit breaker.
In reply to bcp2011 :
I was going by the "rented house" part of the description where installing another outlet might not have been an option.
In reply to bcp2011 :
Rental house they were moving from in 3 months. They were not allowed to make the changes even if they had stayed. He no longer has that drive and now has a house with the fast home charger installed. He also bought it CPO, so he didn't pay full price ( I think it was still $40k though)
In reply to bobzilla :
Fair enough, given the short stay it may not have been worth it even if the landlord allowed them to install the charger.
Having said that, Bob, it would be far more helpful to know the circumstances here. In your original post, you had made it seem like the car was failing to live up to its range. Upon further questions, you offered up the fact that the house was a rental, and after more prodding, offered up that they were living there for only three months. If all those details would have been provided initially it would have created the context for which the car was not the best solution for your friend during the three months that they lived in the rental.
Yeah, context is key- I was wondering 'why' at least 3 times, with each time the question being answered.
But back to us Tesla fans thinking we're better then everyone else! Truthfully, I think the Model 3's interior is awesome compared to the button bukkake most cars now have. It's weird to me, that a Chrysler Pacifica used to haul kids and families has fewer buttons and more touch controls than a new Durango with the same touchscreen.
Just... just give me good dials for temp! Buttons to control music and cruise on the wheel! Touchscreen up front for the rest! ITS NOT HARD. ITS WHAT EVERYONE WANTS.
bcp2011 said:In reply to bobzilla :
Fair enough, given the short stay it may not have been worth it even if the landlord allowed them to install the charger.
Having said that, Bob, it would be far more helpful to know the circumstances here. In your original post, you had made it seem like the car was failing to live up to its range. Upon further questions, you offered up the fact that the house was a rental, and after more prodding, offered up that they were living there for only three months. If all those details would have been provided initially it would have created the context for which the car was not the best solution for your friend during the three months that they lived in the rental.
why does it matter? The point was, since you obviously missed it the 300 times I've made it: an electric car is not the panacea that it is made out to be. There is too much differences across this country for it to be the be all end all it's made out to be. Period. That doesn't need fine points put into text.
Heaven have mercy apparently on anyone not on the "all electric are awesome always" bandwagon.
bobzilla said:why does it matter? The point was, since you obviously missed it the 300 times I've made it: an electric car is not the panacea that it is made out to be. There is too much differences across this country for it to be the be all end all it's made out to be. Period. That doesn't need fine points put into text.
Heaven have mercy apparently on anyone not on the "all electric are awesome always" bandwagon.
Bob - internet conversations require all parties to be proactive in communicating. This forum is one of the best on the web precisely because people ask for help and those willing to help go out of their way to offer their advice. What other forum do you go to that has a road assist list at the top? None that I frequent, and it's because the culture of this forum, made up of like minded people, that makes it possible.
Now back to your point - it matters because having a conversation online requires proactive communication or otherwise it devolves into a screaming match that nobody benefits from. Nobody in this thread has stood up to say that electric cars are the best solution for all transportation needs. If nobody said that, then making the point that it's not the solution in all instances is a straw man argument. Also, if you're just trying to make the point that it's not the perfect solution, then why add in a story about your friend? It's 100% irrelevant. It's like me going into a thread, say that my FRS sucks because the engine died, and then later offered that I never changed the oil for 30k miles, and then a while later mentioned that I had a misshift on track that resulted in the engine spinning at 12k. Don't you think all of that matters before I state that FRS are pieces of crap? And would my point be relevant? Should I also offer up the point that FRS isn't the right car for every situation, from towing race cars to carrying a family of 5? Isn't it obvious?
Nobody is singling you out because you don't think electric cars are always awesome. But regardless, you've made the point that electric cars aren't awesome always. Got it. Let's move on.
In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :
The Model 3 is even worse in the minimalist point. The blinkers and speed are shown in the central dash as there's no "driver" cluster. I'm not sure if it's a cost saving thing, but regardless I don't like it. And I'm with you on the controls - some stuff is cool to control through screens, but knobs and buttons are far more effective for the stuff that you touch everyday (radio, volume, temp).
I'd be super-duper happy with electrification of normal cars with normal interiors.
^ This right here
I'm impressed w/ the Bolt powertrain, just don't package it in an concept looking vehicle. Gimme a Express City and call it a win.
Edited to make the vehicle useful for people or companies that put a lot of work miles on vehicles.
bcp2011 said:In reply to GIRTHQUAKE :
The Model 3 is even worse in the minimalist point. The blinkers and speed are shown in the central dash as there's no "driver" cluster. I'm not sure if it's a cost saving thing, but regardless I don't like it. And I'm with you on the controls - some stuff is cool to control through screens, but knobs and buttons are far more effective for the stuff that you touch everyday (radio, volume, temp).
What I REALLY want in interior controls- Micro switches. Everyone uses basic rubber tactile dome switches like in a laptop keyboard, which you can make super small and cheap but have no tactile response or feedback. I want to feel a physical 'click' every time something happens. I want to change the temperature- with purpose!
Brake_L8 said:TLDR: EVs are fun, most of their owners are annoying AF.
Here's the problem, most anti-EV people are even MORE annoying and tend to be ignorant on top of it, and many make E36 M3 up and then bitch about that made up "fact." I'm so berkeleying tired of the same anti- EV arguments posted here and elsewhere. Learn something for a change and get the berkeley over it, people.
Basic math: 80% of drivers in the US drive less than 33 miles a day. Even the current crop of EVs is more than adequate for commuting AND errand running for the average weekly slog and even weekend trips (most people really don't know how far 200 miles actually IS. That's 3 states away from here. After dailying a Volt I know know how far even 10 miles actually is. It's a complete round trip to work and back, so the Volt's 40 mile range is adequate for almost a week of my commuting.). 60% of households have 2 or more cars already. One could easily be an EV and have the gas vehicle around for road trips (which most people are simply not taking on even a weekly basis). So...there's a realistic market for over 100 MILLION EVs in the US alone (1/3rd of the total population) and it would take 20-35 YEARS of max production to even sell that many EVs.
Most people living in apartments in the city don't have cars as it is, as they tend to get around on foot or public transportation of some sort, so their situation of not having charging infrastructure is immaterial. And most people outside the cities are not living in apartments.
Fact is, EVs don't just work for SOME people, they work for vastly more people than we can build cars for annually. But it takes anti-EVers to quit spewing BS like "it only works for some people" to get people to assess their situation logically to see if they WOULD be well served by one.
Listen, we don't go into threads about Miatas and say they are crap because they won't tow my race car trailer, and we don't go into tow rig threads and say they are all crap because they get E36 M3 mileage and can't autocross worth a damn, do we? But yet you expect EVERY EV to be 100% perfect for 100% of the use cases out there or they are ALL CRAP in your minds. Why is that? Fear of the unknown? Just pure stupidity? What? No, they don't work for everyone, just like Suburban 2500s don't work for everyone and 2 seat sports cars don't work for everyone. But let's stop making E36 M3 up or using some random, out-there edge case to prove that they aren't ready for most people.
I've spent time with the Tesla S both in 75 (base) and P100D form, as well as the Model 3 in base and Performance AWD form. They area fast and handle excellent. The Model 3 especially has to be driven a lot like a 911 to get the most out of it: dive into a corner, lift and let regen do the slowing, and power out of corners, balancing on the edge of traction. It's amazing. And it takes about 5 minutes to get used to the center screen and the feeling of openness in front of you. You don't NEED the gauges in front of you, as you don't need a tach, you're not shifting, you don't need a water temp gauge or an oil pressure gauge. You might only be interested in your speed, but even then, not so much when you're hammering on it on a twisty back road any more than you need a speedometer in a race car. The actual number is academic/unimportant unless you're about to get pulled over for it. ;) It's a complete mental shift in what you need to drive with. I guess because I've had so many cars (over 130 cars in 40 years) that I'm mentally set up to adjust to whatever car I'm driving, rather than requiring every car I drive to adjust to me, but it took very little to get used to it, certainly no longer than it took to get use to the central gauges in a Model A or Mini.
In reply to Chris_V :
That’s well put.
It is. And I never even thought of what that statement- "Its not meant for everyone!"- can really mean. Certain cars aren't meant for everyone? Try CARS aren't meant for everyone. I've met people who just don't drive, because they hate driving!
While not a Tesla, we bought a 2015 BMW i3 REX ~4 months ago. I found it down in Ft. Lauderdale at a BMW dealer after looking for a few months. It originally stickers for $56k and we paid $21k for it with 25k miles
It is my wife’s DD and she is exactly the driver Chris_V described above. She has a pretty short commute to her part time job, drives carpool several days per week and runs lots of errands. She parks at home every night. I went to the trouble of installing a 240v outlet in the garage, but never got around to ordering a fast charger, since it’s fully charged every morning. Only twice in those 4 months has she run down the battery enough to kick on the motor. The car is absolutely fantastic. It is fun to drive, fits 4 comfortably and looks cool. And, having come from a 4th gen 4Runner with a V8, the change in gas usage is incredible! We kept the 4Runner so that’s our out of town car/tow rig/utility vehicle.
Overall, we love it. I have to believe we’ll have at least one electric car from here on out.
In reply to dyintorace :
This.
The model 3 complaints don't hold up once you drive one. The controls are fine (save for the wipers) and it's great to drive.
In reply to Chris_V :
Agree with 99% of what you said. :)
On the point of having a center gauge though - I've found that managing speed in my FIL's 75D to be pretty hard since a little more gas = +10mph on the highway. My wife said the same thing. I think her quote was: "We can't get one of these b/c it's too fast and I'll get too many tickets." Anyway, maybe one needs a little more time to adapt, but I'd be constantly checking the center screen in the 3 for fear of the same thing. Perhaps Elon is just getting me ready for autonomous level 5?
And speaking of anti-EVers...
Very cool car)
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