Tesla model 3

I'm considering plunking my money down. Having full autopilot features across all price points is what really sweetens the deal for me.

Well I am sold. I have to own one someday

What does this do to EV sales in the US? 100k people who want EV's just said they're OK not buying anything for the next year and a half. The specs released make the Leaf and Bolt seem like second rate cars. I'm sure Tesla will sell some model S's and X's, but neither of those seem like a great buy compared to the 3 either. So does the whole EV market just sort of stand still for a year and a half?

Unless Nissan really ups their game with the Leaf, it's dead in the water. I had heard rumors a Mk2 Leaf was on its way for 2017, but we'll see.

The Bolt is still pretty impressive. It will be here well before the model 3, with similar range and acceleration figures. And Tesla's repair network in the Midwest and their track record on reliability does scare me. I think the Bolt could still sell.

mazdeuce wrote: What does this do to EV sales in the US? 100k people who want EV's just said they're OK not buying anything for the next year and a half. The specs released make the Leaf and Bolt seem like second rate cars. I'm sure Tesla will sell some model S's and X's, but neither of those seem like a great buy compared to the 3 either. So does the whole EV market just sort of stand still for a year and a half?

It forces the other manufacturers of these cars to up their game is what it does. Why you would buy a Bolt or Leaf over this is beyond me, even the i3 looks like an ugly after thought in comparison. The MSRP on the Bolt is $37,500 and the Leaf is $29,000. Both of the aforementioned cars are FWD as well, the Model 3 is going to be RWD and I would imagine offer a much more sporting driving experience.

mazdeuce wrote: What does this do to EV sales in the US? 100k people who want EV's just said they're OK not buying anything for the next year and a half. The specs released make the Leaf and Bolt seem like second rate cars. I'm sure Tesla will sell some model S's and X's, but neither of those seem like a great buy compared to the 3 either. So does the whole EV market just sort of stand still for a year and a half?

Well, that's one possibility. The other (and the one I'd hope for) is that everyone out there sees that there's a definite market for EV's. Obviously, there is, but it needs something behind it. Tesla gets to ride the coat tails of the Model S and to some degree the X, but their competition is the Nissan Leaf and the Chevy Bolt! right now. That's just not enough. The i3 is in there, but 80 miles of range and an extra $10,000 in price are not compelling.

So hopefully BMW, Mercedes, and those Faux Lux brands from Japan will get the hint.

0-60 is a lot slower than the rumors said. Not impractically slow, but we're talking econo-sport-compact times instead of near-supercar speed.

My only real complaints are the spartan 3rd-world-economy-car interior - at least of the pre-production model, I hope they spiff it up a bit - and the look of the front end. Having the curvature for a grille and no grille looks wrong somehow. I would fully endorse a faux upper grille on this car.

I like it and really like the interior (I am a fan of open concept). The "only have to move the steering wheel for other countries" interior design philosophy is smart from a manufacturing and space standpoint.

what isn't smart is the fact my mini-me's can now see the speed clearly

I am sure once production gets going that it will have a hopped up version. Besides it is still faster than a Porsche 911SC and all but the most recent Miata.

GameboyRMH wrote: 0-60 is a lot slower than the rumors said. Not impractically slow, but we're talking econo-sport-compact times instead of near-supercar speed. My only real complaints are the spartan 3rd-world-economy-car interior - at least of the pre-production model, I hope they spiff it up a bit - and the look of the front end. Having the curvature for a grille and no grille looks wrong somehow. I would fully endorse a faux upper grille on this car.

That's the base model. I guarantee there's a sub-4.0 second version in there. There will also be an AWD, and one with over 300 mile range.

Storz wrote:

mazdeuce wrote: What does this do to EV sales in the US? 100k people who want EV's just said they're OK not buying anything for the next year and a half. The specs released make the Leaf and Bolt seem like second rate cars. I'm sure Tesla will sell some model S's and X's, but neither of those seem like a great buy compared to the 3 either. So does the whole EV market just sort of stand still for a year and a half?

It forces the other manufacturers of these cars to up their game is what it does. Why you would buy a Bolt or Leaf over this is beyond me, even the i3 looks like an ugly after thought in comparison. The MSRP on the Bolt is $37,500 and the Leaf is $29,000. Both of the aforementioned cars are FWD as well, the Model 3 is going to be RWD and I would imagine offer a much more sporting driving experience.

OR if forces Tesla to actually figure out how to make money putting a car together. To date, they still don't....

This is the biggest car segment in the industry, and everyone else uses it and the trucks to rake in a lot of money. And at those volumes, Tesla will have to make money to survive- even breaking even will be tough- as it gives you almost no wiggle room for mistakes.

The wiggle room in the ultra high end market is a little easier to deal with.

SWMBO said I could reserve one, and figure out how to pay for it by the time it's delivered in 2020. I thought that was rude...

Like it.

Do not like Tesla much.

I think this reveal tactic is an excellent and yet underhanded way of limiting their competitors until they are ready for market. It gets people to talk about this car in comparison to EVs on the market today, even though it's still over a year off.

Egghead Racer wrote: The tax credit is by manufacturer, not segment. So Tesla, Nissan, etc. all have their own cap of 200k cars. As of yesterday, the figure as of yesetrday was that Tesla had an esimated 50k-75k claimed tax credits. Plus, I think they'll likely extend the credit if the Model 3 is successful, as the government is trying to look pro-green tech these days.

Don't think that isn't without it's big money behind it. New power generations stations and electric grid to hold the demand.

I guarantee you every electric energy company is lobbying for electric cars as hard as every oil company is lobbying against it.

Green is how they sell it to the public and hipsters.

Besides we are all car guys here. Nice to see us get back to our roots.

1834. What is so GRM about it is that electric cars held all the speed records till 1900.

So Keith when are you going to do a Tesla Model S drive train into an Exocet chassis?

I hope they have upped their manufacturing capacity. I've chatted with many who were through their factory early on and their general manufacturing knowledge was very weak with their assembly processes being far from big three standard.

alfadriver wrote: OR if forces Tesla to actually figure out how to make money putting a car together. To date, they still don't.... This is the biggest car segment in the industry, and everyone else uses it and the trucks to rake in a lot of money. And at those volumes, Tesla will have to make money to survive- even breaking even will be tough- as it gives you almost no wiggle room for mistakes. The wiggle room in the ultra high end market is a little easier to deal with.

Bringing everything in house, especially the battery production, will help with that. And spinning off the Tesla brand into things like the power bank will also offset some of the cost.

If we assume that a base Model 3 at $35,000 makes no profit, then every option will definitely make profit. (Big assumption, I know, but as some point Musk and his Mad Scientists will figure this one out) and then they get to sell off their tech, batteries, etc. to other manufacturers, which leads to profit again. There's definitely a plan in place, and I for one hope to hell it works out for them.

In reply to tuna55:

Do you remember the Infiniti launch? My dad mail ordered one of their promo video tapes before launch. They had tv commercials with no view or real mention of the car.

Fueled by Caffeine wrote: I hope they have upped their manufacturing capacity. I've chatted with many who were through their factory early on and their general manufacturing knowledge was very weak with their assembly processes being far from big three standard.

That's the Gigafactory. Production capacity is supposed to reach 500k cars/year when complete, nearly the same number of cars that Subaru sells in a year in the US.

In reply to Egghead Racer:

They haven't made money on one car yet, not the fully optioned big dollar car. They also have very poor quality control and poor manufacturing controls. I hope they have changed because s halo car customer will deal with issues to be able to own such a nice car. A 30k Honda driver will not tolerate it much.

In reply to Egghead Racer:

Gigafacory will not make cars only batteries

Egghead Racer wrote:

alfadriver wrote: OR if forces Tesla to actually figure out how to make money putting a car together. To date, they still don't.... This is the biggest car segment in the industry, and everyone else uses it and the trucks to rake in a lot of money. And at those volumes, Tesla will have to make money to survive- even breaking even will be tough- as it gives you almost no wiggle room for mistakes. The wiggle room in the ultra high end market is a little easier to deal with.

Bringing everything in house, especially the battery production, will help with that. And spinning off the Tesla brand into things like the power bank will also offset some of the cost. If we assume that a base Model 3 at $35,000 makes no profit, then every option will definitely make profit. (Big assumption, I know, but as some point Musk and his Mad Scientists will figure this one out) and then they get to sell off their tech, batteries, etc. to other manufacturers, which leads to profit again. There's definitely a plan in place, and I for one hope to hell it works out for them.

Can't agree that everything in house makes it better to make money for sure.

It CAN make it better, sure. But unless you really know what you are doing, it can make it worse. So the key is to know who can do a better job than you supplying the parts.

That's one of the things that all OEM's have hanging over Telsa- the process of making a car has gotten more and more efficient. It's the same thing that hangs over Elio.

Flight Service wrote:

Egghead Racer wrote: The tax credit is by manufacturer, not segment. So Tesla, Nissan, etc. all have their own cap of 200k cars. As of yesterday, the figure as of yesetrday was that Tesla had an esimated 50k-75k claimed tax credits. Plus, I think they'll likely extend the credit if the Model 3 is successful, as the government is trying to look pro-green tech these days.

Don't think that isn't without it's big money behind it. New power generations stations and electric grid to hold the demand. I guarantee you every electric energy company is lobbying for electric cars as hard as every oil company is lobbying against it. Green is how they sell it to the public and hipsters. Besides we are all car guys here. Nice to see us get back to our roots. 1834. What is so GRM about it is that electric cars held all the speed records till 1900. So Keith when are you going to do a Tesla Model S drive train into an Exocet chassis?

I didn't look it up but I'm calling you out on 1834, Thomas Edison was like five years old in 1834...

EvanR wrote: Maybe someday I will live someplace where I can have 220VAC in the garage. Until then, no electric car for me :(

As a guy who added two 220v lines to his garage, get off your lazy butt and run some dang wire. It's not difficult in the slightest to add a 220v outlet, especially if the breaker panel is already in the garage.

On the Tesla 3. I don't like the way the front looks like stretched skin over where the grill would normally be, and I don't like the ridiculously big tablet thing sticking out of the dash like it does. Other than that, i think it's a slam dunk.

Fueled by Caffeine wrote: In reply to tuna55: Do you remember the Infiniti launch? My dad mail ordered one of their promo video tapes before launch. They had tv commercials with no view or real mention of the car.

Nope. Just because it was done before doesn't mean it isn't an unhanded and yet clever way to do things. They are getting people to compare specs with existing cars on sale right now, that were revealed years and years ago, like the Leaf, to specs from a car which won't be on sale for years, and may not adhere to those very specs.

It's clever, but deceptive.

GameboyRMH wrote: 0-60 is a lot slower than the rumors said. Not impractically slow, but we're talking econo-sport-compact times instead of near-supercar speed. My only real complaints are the spartan 3rd-world-economy-car interior - at least of the pre-production model, I hope they spiff it up a bit - and the look of the front end. Having the curvature for a grille and no grille looks wrong somehow. I would fully endorse a faux upper grille on this car.

I disagree, I think the front end is perfect as is. Has an aggressive look to it, and there is no reason to add a faux grill. The car stands apart from the legions of boring bubble cars on the market now both EVs and IC

I know which one I'd rather have in my (220v equipped!) garage.