Test driving.... sigh.

We went test driving last night... looking for RX8s and NB/NC Miatas.

Called the local Mazda dealer yesterday afternoon, asked if they had any RX8s still on the lot. (They had 9 last time i was there.)

"Yes, we have one. It's black, clean, and it's been here for 50 days, so we'll cut a deal."

Excited, i didn't ask any more about it, like an idiot.

Show up, dealer pulls it around, and it's an auto. NOPE.

They have two NCs on the lot. One a BEAUTIFUL 2013 Dolphin Grey Metallic power folding hardtop, fully loaded, with the mocha brown leather interior. First NC that really made me say "Damn! That looks good!"

Auto.

2012 red NC.

AUTO.

What the hell?

The salesperson, sensing my frustration at this point says "Well, i know you just pulled up in a Miata of the same generation, but we have a 99 10AE out back that we took in on trade 3 days ago. Hasn't been detailed yet, but you're welcome to look at it."

Sure, why not. I love the 10AEs.

Tech brings it up front. As he's driving it, it throws a CEL and eats E36 M3.

Great. Left my name and number telling them to call me if they get any manual RX8s.

On the way back, notice that another branch of the same dealer has a clean looking silver 03 Miata base model. I pull in to check it out.

The top is on borrowed time, but body is 100% mint otherwise. It has 57k miles. (Soo... pretty much due for a service.)

I ask for the price, salesguy wants me to drive it first so i can "Fall in love." Riiiiiiiight.

Start it up and get in. Motor mounts completely shot, has a slight miss, ticking like crazy, exhaust manifold leak, power locks don't work, 3 of the speakers don't work, burn marks in the seats, clutch is almost dead, 5th gear grinds, and it'll need the 60k mile service in 3k miles.

I get out, ask the price...

"Only $15k! Not bad with such low miles!"

My jaw hit the floor and i just walked out.

Do these guys not realize that summer is over? AND WHY CAN I NOT FIND MANUAL SPORTS CARS FROM MAZDA OF ALL COMPANIES?!?!

Used cars are on some kind of acid trip lately. The prices they are asking are no longer based in anything that could be considered reality.

I was prepared to offer about... $6k for the car knowing that it would have to be a winter project.

Used car prices have been super high since CFC. No suprise there. It's harder and harder to find a good deal.

I can hook you up with a mechanically new Corvette for that kind of money...

Bobzilla wrote: Used car prices have been super high since CFC. No suprise there. It's harder and harder to find a good deal. I can hook you up with a mechanically new Corvette for that kind of money...

Do not want Corvette.

There's good prices out there on RX8s and NC Miatas... but i seem to be having a real problem finding them with a real transmission.

Except C4C took very few cars off the road, especially if you consider how many cars naturally die every year. Used car prices have more to do with people shopping used cars because they can't afford new. When every teenager with a job at BK can afford a new car, used cars are cheap. When a new cheap car is $20,000, BK kid can't afford it, so he starts shopping for used cars. And all of his buddies that need cars are in the same boat. More demand with the same supply means prices go up. I'm pretty sure you knew that, though.

I've seen several instances of a current model year used car sitting on a car lot with under 5,000 miles on it with a price higher than a comparable new car of the same make and model. Look at me with a straight face and tell me C4C caused that.

So are you ditching the MSM then? There are a couple RX8s on the lots down this way I can check out for you.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I was prepared to offer about... $6k for the car knowing that it would have to be a winter project.

I've got an 01 mr2 for a tiny bit more that is in pretty good shape.... Shameless self promotion.

Our last 3 cars have been New because the 20-30k mile used market was within 1-1.5k of new and that seemed like a no brainer. Hs used market is pretty crazy for the sub 80k mile cars across the board.

I'm no fan of CFC (although, I do like KFC a lot), but I'd think that its effects would have kind of worn off by now. I know that the prices for beaters on craigslist and Goodwill auctions were getting driven up by the fact that any car could be scrapped for $350-$400 without much effort, but scrap prices seem down recently. There were the tsunami shortages, but that seems to have recovered. If I had to guess, I'd blame the increasing costs of new cars, driven partially by stricter safety and emissions standards, as well as the fact that cars are being built better and lasting longer, meaning that in most cases a used car isn't a used-up car.

Derick Freese wrote: Look at me with a straight face and tell me C4C caused that.

Ok.... if you insist. CFC caused that. Actually, it did not cause that DIRECTLY, but it started the slide in that direction. I know the other issue for the cars I'm looking at has been their tremendous jump in reliability, durability and desireability.

4 years ago I couldn't walk around a car lot without tripping over $1000-2000 used Hyundai/Kia's. Now they're as rare as a Supra that was actually driven (on the street) to a car show. Demand went up, prices have followed.

garaithon wrote: So are you ditching the MSM then? There are a couple RX8s on the lots down this way I can check out for you.

Not sure yet. We're driving other things to see if we like them better, and we'll go from there.

We've only put 1300 miles on it this year. It only gets driven to and from her work.

nocones wrote:

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: I was prepared to offer about... $6k for the car knowing that it would have to be a winter project.

I've got an 01 mr2 for a tiny bit more that is in pretty good shape.... Shameless self promotion. Our last 3 cars have been New because the 20-30k mile used market was within 1-1.5k of new and that seemed like a no brainer. Hs used market is pretty crazy for the sub 80k mile cars across the board.

The MR2 Spyder is what i wanted, but can't have one until after our trip. Not enough storage space.

The alternative is to get one now, and then take the Cherokee on a 6000 mile road trip across the US exploring all the interesting roads. Not near as fun as a sports car.

Can we get the C4C bullE36 M3 out of this thread? When we're talking about sports cars made within the last decade, it REALLY doesn't apply. This is not hard logic.

I'll test drive an auto just to see if I really want that particular car. I want to see if I can fit in it, see out of it, handles the way I want it to, etc... I have come back and point blank told the salesman, since he is euphoric on the potential sale, that the auto has to go and I want a manual. Either the salesman works to find it, loses me as a customer, or on one occasion, ended up with a smoking deal on the auto.

As to the used car prices, the auction prices are way high to start with. Then the dealer still has to decide what to fix that a tech finds as wrong and broken. All the while knowing what they can get back out of the vehicle from a finance company to keep the doors open. This is why when I buy a used car from a dealer, I ask for the inspection repair order. If they don't have one or let me see it, bubye.

Ranger50 wrote: I'll test drive an auto just to see if I really want that particular car. I want to see if I can fit in it, see out of it, handles the way I want it to, etc... I have come back and point blank told the salesman, since he is euphoric on the potential sale, that the auto has to go and I want a manual. Either the salesman works to find it, loses me as a customer, or on one occasion, ended up with a smoking deal on the auto. As to the used car prices, the auction prices are way high to start with. Then the dealer still has to decide what to fix that a tech finds as wrong and broken. All the while knowing what they can get back out of the vehicle from a finance company to keep the doors open. This is why when I buy a used car from a dealer, I ask for the inspection repair order. If they don't have one or let me see it, bubye.

Ooooooo good idea, thanks!

Yeah, the thing with the autos yesterday is that we're really thinking the RX8 is going to be "the car." And the auto RX8s were severely hamstrung. Not only do you have the indignity of an automatic, but they also make quite a bit less power.

First impressions are a big thing with cars when it comes to my fiancee, and what's more important is that she likes it. If she doesn't like driving an auto RX8, chances are slim that she'd give a manual a chance. So we skip to the good ones.

Bobzilla wrote:

Derick Freese wrote: Look at me with a straight face and tell me C4C caused that.

Ok.... if you insist. CFC caused that. Actually, it did not cause that DIRECTLY, but it started the slide in that direction. I know the other issue for the cars I'm looking at has been their tremendous jump in reliability, durability and desireability. 4 years ago I couldn't walk around a car lot without tripping over $1000-2000 used Hyundai/Kia's. Now they're as rare as a Supra that was actually driven (on the street) to a car show. Demand went up, prices have followed.

Sorry, but 300k cars removed from the road vs. selling cars at a rate 2-3M less than what is annually being taken off the road IS insignificant. The bad years sold 9M and 10M cars, when 12M were being taken permanently off the road.

Basically, the number of cars on US roads decreased by about 5M cars, and THAT increased used car prices, since the demand didn't change (well, used car demand probably went up) and new cars were not being added.

300k generally POS Explorers had no real impact.

92CelicaHalfTrac wrote: We went test driving last night... looking for RX8s and NB/NC Miatas. Called the local Mazda dealer yesterday afternoon, asked if they had any RX8s still on the lot. (They had 9 last time i was there.) "Yes, we have one. It's black, clean, and it's been here for 50 days, so we'll cut a deal." Excited, i didn't ask any more about it, like an idiot. Show up, dealer pulls it around, and it's an auto. NOPE.

Bad flashback to last summer, looking for a Z3, new one pops up at dealer, "too new for photos," they list it as a 5 speed man trans, have dealer sit in car and ask a number of questions, never think to make him confirm the data they put in the ad, drive two hours, look in the side window, see auto shifter, don't even open the door, drive two hours home.

The RX8 was my fault, i should have asked.

I don't know where all these cars went, though... i think everyone realized how cheap they were all of a sudden and snatched them all. Literally a month ago there were TONS of them at this same dealer, and they weren't selling.

Or maybe they sent them all to auction?

In reply to 92CelicaHalfTrac:

Dealer traded for the next auto CX7....

Everyone who bought those cars with a manual kept them.

Supply. Demand.

When are you looking to buy?

mtn wrote: When are you looking to buy?

Depends on the car/deal.

I'll get the most money out of this MSM in Spring, obviously, and that helps.

Unfortunately, that being the best time to sell, is also the worst time to buy.

Stop looking at dealers. I don't know why anyone would buy a used car from a dealer. The only sport cars that get traded are the ones that couldn't get sold private party b/c they are junk.

Check craigslist and cars.com and the marque specific forums.

wae wrote: I'm no fan of CFC (although, I do like KFC a lot),

CFC= Canadian Fried Chicken?