Test drove a Camaro today...

carguy123 wrote: I know, I've driven one. I liken it to a small Miata inside.

Except with terrible ergonomics and cheap plastic everything...And I have one. At least it has the turbo engine.
Oh, and to the guys talking about engine transplants - The engine block in the solstice is good for more HP than most V-8's. I can't think of one good reason to take it out.

bravenrace wrote:

carguy123 wrote: I know, I've driven one. I liken it to a small Miata inside.

Except with terrible ergonomics and cheap plastic everything...And I have one. At least it has the turbo engine. Oh, and to the guys talking about engine transplants - The engine block in the solstice is good for more HP than most V-8's. I can't think of one good reason to take it out.

I think you gripe about your Solstice more than some unnamed people here talk about their Celicas or P71s! Seriously, didn't you get it for free as a job perk? Seems like the ergonomics are effin fantastic for the whopping sum of free dollars. I bet you don't spout judgement about the car so loudly with the purchaser as you do on this board.

The Sky/Solstice is glorious in that it's a beautiful roadster with tons of power for very little money. If ergonomics and better interior plastics are important to you in your roadster purchase, get a Miata. Personally, the extra 100+ horsepower washes away the ergonomics, plastic quality, etc. issues for me. The same goes for passengers and friends who drive it. "The top isn't quite as nice as the Mia..." cue acceleration, engine spooling, no lift shift, turbo sounds, no lift shift, turbo sounds, slow down before the cops show up "...wow, that's fast. What were we talking about?"

Bryce

Someday I'll have another 68. I was young and too stupid to know what I had.

Nashco wrote:

bravenrace wrote:

carguy123 wrote: I know, I've driven one. I liken it to a small Miata inside.

Except with terrible ergonomics and cheap plastic everything...And I have one. At least it has the turbo engine. Oh, and to the guys talking about engine transplants - The engine block in the solstice is good for more HP than most V-8's. I can't think of one good reason to take it out.

I think you gripe about your Solstice more than some unnamed people here talk about their Celicas or P71s! Seriously, didn't you get it for free as a job perk? Seems like the ergonomics are effin fantastic for the whopping sum of free dollars. I bet you don't spout judgement about the car so loudly with the purchaser as you do on this board. The Sky/Solstice is glorious in that it's a beautiful roadster with tons of power for very little money. If ergonomics and better interior plastics are important to you in your roadster purchase, get a Miata. Personally, the extra 100+ horsepower washes away the ergonomics, plastic quality, etc. issues for me. The same goes for passengers and friends who drive it. "The top isn't quite as nice as the Mia..." *cue acceleration, engine spooling, no lift shift, turbo sounds, no lift shift, turbo sounds, slow down before the cops show up* "...wow, that's fast. What were we talking about?" Bryce

Yes,it's a company car, which makes me more objective than if I had purchased it, right? I gripe about it because it deserves griping about. What reason would I have to lie about it? It's not like I have to defend it because I was the one that forked out the money for it. And the fact is, this car wasn't cheap. It had a sticker price over $31k, and for just a little more, you can buy an S2000, which is a much better car all around, IMO.
BTW, I thought it was okay to give an opinion on a message board. My opinion of you would be that you have to defend your car because you DID pay for it. Who would be fairer with a review, someone who spent $30k on a car or someone who spent zero on one? Although you seem to think I talk too much about it, I'll mention that while I've been tempted (for the value to others here), I've never made a post specificallly about reviewing this car. But since you opened the door, here's my objective list of good and bad, again in my opinion, off the top of my head:

Good:

• Good power
• Some think it's nice looking
• Rear drive
• Gas mileage
• Comfortable seats
• After driving it in northeast Ohio all winter, there isn't even one noticeable chip in the paint on the front end - Good paint adhesion!

Bad:

• Top leaks in heavy rain, done it since new and the dealer can't fix it.
• Right side has incredible amount of wind noise coming from where the top meets the body - again the dealer can't fix it.
• If you roll up the pass side window with the top up, it doesn't seat correctly. Dealer can't fix.
• All of these items broke at one time or another and then later mysteriously corrected themselves - Both key fobs, cruise control, alarm sounding for no reason, audio system muting itself for no reason.
• Upon cold startup (engine cold, not ambient), the engine sounds like an '84 Ford Tempo with a bad wa wa pump bearing and no muffler. When it's warm, it just sounds like a UPS truck. Ever drive an S2000?
• The operation of the top would be a joke if it was funny. In reality it's one of the most ill conceived I've ever experienced.
• The tires squeel like pigs the second you give it ANY kind of gas, and don't grip all that well either.
• The handling on anything but ultra smooth pavement is on par with a fox body Mustang - squirrely.
• The ergonomics DO suck. The window switches are closer to my elbow than my hand, even though there was room for them farther forward. The cup holders are almost impossible to use, especially when you carpool like I do (the only one that is within easy reach can only be used when there is no passenger). They also barely operate, and after only 12k miles, they both are now broken. Again, this is a daily commuter for me, so cup holders matter.
• The shifter is okay, but not great.
• It's really nice having all that hard plastic on top of the center console right where you rest your arm.
• The intermittant wipers operate opposite of every car I've ever driven. I could go on...
• The windshield cracked while sitting in the parking lot at work. No chips. The glass company says they've seen that before with these cars, and there aren't that many of them in this area.
• he steering wheel, when adjusted for comfort, totally blocks the fuel gauge, top of the speedo and tach, the fog light button, and the traction control button, even though there is plenty of room for both elsewhere.
• The stalks are largely obscured by the steering wheel as well.
• The audio system is okay, but not as good as a $30k car should have.
• The only way to get good acceleration is to turn the traction control off. It totallyl kills the boost on upshifts.
• My friends can't ride in it because they are over 6' tall.
• The trunk is all but unusable with the top up, and even more so with the top down.
• The ABS is nothing short of scary in an emergency situation. It kicks back so hard that it affected my ability to control the steering wheel. Not good.
• You mention the no lift throttle feature. That was not factory in '08.

All in all, this is a fairly quick car that in stock trim is more a cruiser than a sports car. That's okay, if that's what you want. I'm sure a lot of it's shortcomings can be solved with aftermarket parts, but in stock form it doesn't even come close to comparing with an S2000 or Miata as far as overall quality and being fun to drive. Of course, that's just my opinion.

Datsun1500 wrote: Other than that it's a nice car?

Absolutely.

bravenrace wrote:

Nashco wrote:

bravenrace wrote:

carguy123 wrote: I know, I've driven one. I liken it to a small Miata inside.

Except with terrible ergonomics and cheap plastic everything...And I have one. At least it has the turbo engine. Oh, and to the guys talking about engine transplants - The engine block in the solstice is good for more HP than most V-8's. I can't think of one good reason to take it out.

I think you gripe about your Solstice more than some unnamed people here talk about their Celicas or P71s! Seriously, didn't you get it for free as a job perk? Seems like the ergonomics are effin fantastic for the whopping sum of free dollars. I bet you don't spout judgement about the car so loudly with the purchaser as you do on this board. The Sky/Solstice is glorious in that it's a beautiful roadster with tons of power for very little money. If ergonomics and better interior plastics are important to you in your roadster purchase, get a Miata. Personally, the extra 100+ horsepower washes away the ergonomics, plastic quality, etc. issues for me. The same goes for passengers and friends who drive it. "The top isn't quite as nice as the Mia..." *cue acceleration, engine spooling, no lift shift, turbo sounds, no lift shift, turbo sounds, slow down before the cops show up* "...wow, that's fast. What were we talking about?" Bryce

Yes,it's a company car, which makes me more objective than if I had purchased it, right? I gripe about it because it deserves griping about. What reason would I have to lie about it? It's not like I have to defend it because I was the one that forked out the money for it. And the fact is, this car wasn't cheap. It had a sticker price over $31k, and for just a little more, you can buy an S2000, which is a much better car all around, IMO. BTW, I thought it was okay to give an opinion on a message board. My opinion of you would be that you have to defend your car because you DID pay for it. Who would be fairer with a review, someone who spent $30k on a car or someone who spent zero on one? Although you seem to think I talk too much about it, I'll mention that while I've been tempted (for the value to others here), I've never made a post specificallly about reviewing this car. But since you opened the door, here's my objective list of good and bad, again in my opinion, off the top of my head: Good: - Good power - Some think it's nice looking - Rear drive - Gas mileage - Comfortable seats - After driving it in northeast Ohio all winter, there isn't even one noticeable chip in the paint on the front end - Good paint adhesion! Bad: - Top leaks in heavy rain, done it since new and the dealer can't fix it. - Right side has incredible amount of wind noise coming from where the top meets the body - again the dealer can't fix it. - If you roll up the pass side window with the top up, it doesn't seat correctly. Dealer can't fix. - All of these items broke at one time or another and then later mysteriously corrected themselves - Both key fobs, cruise control, alarm sounding for no reason, audio system muting itself for no reason. - Upon cold startup (engine cold, not ambient), the engine sounds like an '84 Ford Tempo with a bad wa wa pump bearing and no muffler. When it's warm, it just sounds like a UPS truck. Ever drive an S2000? - The operation of the top would be a joke if it was funny. In reality it's one of the most ill conceived I've ever experienced. - The tires squeel like pigs the second you give it ANY kind of gas, and don't grip all that well either. - The handling on anything but ultra smooth pavement is on par with a fox body Mustang - squirrely. - The ergonomics DO suck. The window switches are closer to my elbow than my hand, even though there was room for them farther forward. The cup holders are almost impossible to use, especially when you carpool like I do (the only one that is within easy reach can only be used when there is no passenger). They also barely operate, and after only 12k miles, they both are now broken. Again, this is a daily commuter for me, so cup holders matter. - The shifter is okay, but not great. - It's really nice having all that hard plastic on top of the center console right where you rest your arm. - The intermittant wipers operate opposite of every car I've ever driven. I could go on... - The windshield cracked while sitting in the parking lot at work. No chips. The glass company says they've seen that before with these cars, and there aren't that many of them in this area. - he steering wheel, when adjusted for comfort, totally blocks the fuel gauge, top of the speedo and tach, the fog light button, and the traction control button, even though there is plenty of room for both elsewhere. - The stalks are largely obscured by the steering wheel as well. - The audio system is okay, but not as good as a $30k car should have. - The only way to get good acceleration is to turn the traction control off. It totallyl kills the boost on upshifts. - My friends can't ride in it because they are over 6' tall. - The trunk is all but unusable with the top up, and even more so with the top down. - The ABS is nothing short of scary in an emergency situation. It kicks back so hard that it affected my ability to control the steering wheel. Not good. - You mention the no lift throttle feature. That was not factory in '08. All in all, this is a fairly quick car that in stock trim is more a cruiser than a sports car. That's okay, if that's what you want. I'm sure a lot of it's shortcomings can be solved with aftermarket parts, but in stock form it doesn't even come close to comparing with an S2000 or Miata as far as overall quality and being fun to drive. Of course, that's just my opinion.

I don't have time to respond to all of this , but I do want to point a couple of things out. We have had none of the issues with ours you mentioned like the cruise, alarm, audio muting, etc. This is on an early 07 with 25k miles.

Our top has only leaked when going through a car wash.

I'm 6'2 and 210 and fit just fine in the car. I've also had a buddy of mine in the passenger seat who is roughly the same size. it's a little odd having two big guys in a little car, but we fit just fine.
I drive with the steering wheel tilted up quite a bit and have no problem seeing all the gauges. As for all the issues you've had that the dealer can't fix.....maybe try a different dealer. We have a great local dealer, but I know of a few that are pretty bad.

I have a lot of cars and could give you complaints on all of them.....none are perfect including the Solstice, but I really like the car over all and wouldn't trade it for an S2k or Miata....maybe a Boxster S, but then I'd be out more money. And like Nascho mentioned....the power is awesome. I have the stage 1 kit at home right now waiting for me to install it, so it's just going to get better. I can't wait for that extra 65 Ft lbs of TQ!

I have yet to drive the Camaro so I will get that out there first and foremost. But I have been discussing the car a lot with friends lately and I feel that is a good thing.

Previous cars I have owned, include a V6 Camaro (which I drove for 90k miles and not a single problem with), a 98 Acura Integra Type R, a 95 BMW M3, an 89 325i and 91 318i, and a 94 Mazda RX7 that I swapped an LS1 into (drove it with a rotary as well).

If it wasn't for me buying the M3 I would have at the time bought a Camaro. I saw what they could do around the road course with some minor suspension mods and I was impressed. I always liked them having grown up in a muscle car type family. After the M3 I wanted cars that were tighter feeling, smaller and lighter.

I look around today's market place though and all the cars are growing in both size and weight...even the BMWs. A 335i is nearly 3500lbs. The Genesis that they compare the Camaro to is 3300. The Camaro is over 3800lbs. I wish they could have kept the car around 3500lbs or so.

I then thought about it, and I absolutely love the way the LS1 feels in the RX7. Torque everywhere, it is a lot of fun to just cruise around in because it has power everywhere. The LS3 in the Camaro would feel the same way. The other specs of the car, the brakes and suspension are pretty dang good, so if they got the interior right at all, I think the Camaro is a very solid buy at its price point. If you open up the exhaust on the LS3, and add a mild cam you can see mid-high 400s to the wheels. On LS1 tech they were talking an 80lbs weight savings just doing the exhaust on the car, so I am guessing the car has some other weight to lose. If you can improve the stance slightly and lower the cg then I think this would be a GREAT cruising power car, similar to the GTO, but with a more useable trunk (and probably a less useable back seat). If the GTO didn't put me asleep with its looks I would be interested...but the Camaro I like the way it looks so I am interested.

I still don't see myself buying one new...and as such I am no help to GM. The fact that I consider the car is a very big step in the right direction for GM. Of course I don't see myself putting this car on the track, it would be a very fun car for around town and on road trips. I would have other cars to put on track. I think that is something we lose sight of. We are always trying to compare a full size car to our little 10-15 year old track cars that are inherently modified for more power or better response and nearly 1000lbs lighter than modern cars.

If the build quality on the new Camaro is as good or better than my '94, then I think this could be a smoking deal for the v6, and a good deal for the v8 power of which there is really no natural competitor on the market today.

Sorry for the length.

Pontiac keeps trying to get me to buy a G6. I don't want a G6, why not offer me that buyer incentive pricing thing on a solstice GXP?? That's what I want to buy.

That said I'd like to drive one of the new Camaro V6s. The pricing sounds good. I've yet to see one around these parts, but drove next to one in Dallas last month. Nice looking car except for the rear which just messes it all up for me.

Sorry, I had issues with trying to format this reply in a readable way, and I'm tired of trying, so it is what it is.

"I don't have time to respond to all of this , but I do want to point a couple of things out. We have had none of the issues with ours you mentioned like the cruise, alarm, audio muting, etc. This is on an early 07 with 25k miles."

• Well I'm glad for you, but all I can tell anyone is my own experience.

"Our top has only leaked when going through a car wash."

• And you are satisfied with that? Maybe I'm just picky, idunno.

"I'm 6'2 and 210 and fit just fine in the car. I've also had a buddy of mine in the passenger seat who is roughly the same size. it's a little odd having two big guys in a little car, but we fit just fine. "

• I suppose it has something to do with leg length also, but I can tell you that my buddy who is 6-1 has his knees pressed against the pass side dashboard with the seat all the way back.

"I drive with the steering wheel tilted up quite a bit and have no problem seeing all the gauges."

• Again, that's great for you, but I'm 5'-8", and when I adjust the wheel where it is comfortable for me, it blocks all the things I've mentioned. Again, I can only relay my own experience.

"As for all the issues you've had that the dealer can't fix.....maybe try a different dealer. We have a great local dealer, but I know of a few that are pretty bad."

• It's a company car - I have no control over that. But I think my main point is that I shouldn't have had those problems to begin with. I've owned 4 new Honda's over the years. Out of those four, one went back to the dealer once under warranty.

"And like Nascho mentioned....the power is awesome. I have the stage 1 kit at home right now waiting for me to install it, so it's just going to get better. I can't wait for that extra 65 Ft lbs of TQ!"

• I once had a V-8 Vega that was fast. But yet it wasn't at all fun to drive. I'm just sayin'.

bravenrace wrote: Sorry, I had issues with trying to format this reply in a readable way, and I'm tired of trying, so it is what it is. "I don't have time to respond to all of this , but I do want to point a couple of things out. We have had none of the issues with ours you mentioned like the cruise, alarm, audio muting, etc. This is on an early 07 with 25k miles." - Well I'm glad for you, but all I can tell anyone is my own experience. "Our top has only leaked when going through a car wash." - And you are satisfied with that? Maybe I'm just picky, idunno. "I'm 6'2 and 210 and fit just fine in the car. I've also had a buddy of mine in the passenger seat who is roughly the same size. it's a little odd having two big guys in a little car, but we fit just fine. " - I suppose it has something to do with leg length also, but I can tell you that my buddy who is 6-1 has his knees pressed against the pass side dashboard with the seat all the way back. "I drive with the steering wheel tilted up quite a bit and have no problem seeing all the gauges." - Again, that's great for you, but I'm 5'-8", and when I adjust the wheel where it is comfortable for me, it blocks all the things I've mentioned. Again, I can only relay my own experience. "As for all the issues you've had that the dealer can't fix.....maybe try a different dealer. We have a great local dealer, but I know of a few that are pretty bad." - It's a company car - I have no control over that. But I think my main point is that I shouldn't have had those problems to begin with. I've owned 4 new Honda's over the years. Out of those four, one went back to the dealer once under warranty. "And like Nascho mentioned....the power is awesome. I have the stage 1 kit at home right now waiting for me to install it, so it's just going to get better. I can't wait for that extra 65 Ft lbs of TQ!" - I once had a V-8 Vega that was fast. But yet it wasn't at all fun to drive. I'm just sayin'.

Yes I'm satisfied with it only leaking a little when going through a car wash. Both my current 911 and my previous MKIV Supra have targa tops that leak/leaked when it even looked like rain. I'm sure I could take the to my dealer and they would address it, but it doesn't bother me. Most of the time I hand wash it anyway. Maybe I'm not as picky as you.

I would think a V8 Vega would be fun to drive in a hooligan sort of way....maybe not the best handling, but who would expect it? I don't think it's fair to compare the Solstice to a v8 Vega anyway.

I'm only trying to relay my own personal experience as well.

As with Cotton, I haven't experienced most of the issues you have had. I do have an alignment issue with the right side b-pillar hook that I've been meaning to get addressed at the dealer, that will come up when the oil change is due. If you think the top operation is a not-funny joke, you must have been very spoiled in the past. I've had other cars with worse tops. Some of your "bad" issues are really finicky things...you won't find a convertible on the market in the same price and performance range without little things like that.

The engine sounds you don't like are likely a function of the direct injection system, which is the only unusual sound mine makes...unusual because I've never had anything with direct injection before. Comparing to an S2000 engine is a bit silly, that engine has less power (which you have to rev the hell out of to get because it has half the torque), and gets worse fuel economy. If you want to reduce the sound (not eliminate it, but reduce it) you can get one of these for a few bucks, I plan to do it myself:

http://www.solsticeforum.com/forum/f43/gxp-noise-abatement-54658/

In regards to the tires squeeling...well, duh, you've got double the torque that most of the competitive cars have...tires will squeel. Get stickier tires if it really bothers you, personally I'll wear these ones out (shouldn't take long!) before I get stickier tires. You also grip about the traction control killing power...well, these go hand in hand. You don't want the tires to squeel on launch, yet you do want them to chirp/slip during shifts? That's what the traction control button is for...if you want max power, hit the button twice to go into competitive mode...I agree, for more skilled drivers this is a heck of a lot more fun. However, I like that if a friend wants to take it for a test drive or I'm driving around in the rain, the regular traction/stability control mode is conservative.

Complaints of window switches, cup holders, wiper controls, etc. are really finicky IMO. Would I do it different if I was in the design team? Sure. Is it worth complaining about? Definitely not. Here's where somebody who purchased the car would be more satisfied than someone who got the car for free. I compared the Sky to the competition. Other cars had nicer trim and ergonomics, but compromised performance and had bland looks, which is fine for somebody purchasing an MX-2000. I wanted a sexy roadster with some balls, so I bought the Sky. Want a car with great ergonomics and great power? Get out another check book.

When everything is adjusted properly for me (6' - 180 lbs) I can see/fit fine, although my head will definitely rub the top with a helmet on, same as on all my other small cars. Taking friends for a ride should occur with the top down. What fun is a roadster with the top up??? I'm really confused how the steering wheel blocks the traction control button. It's next to the shifter. How close is your face to the steering wheel?

No lift shift is a feature of the turbo tune available from GM Performance Parts. 30 hp, 65 ft lbs, no lift shifting, factory warranty maintained for about $700. It's amazing how quickly you can get over the shortcomings of the Sky/Solstice when you have double the torque and a whole bunch more power than a Meotter and S2000. I also love the way it looks. That's why I paid money for it, and why I appreciate it as an awesome alternative to the competition.

Bryce

Nashco wrote: No lift shift is a feature of the turbo tune available from GM Performance Parts. 30 hp, 65 ft lbs, no lift shifting, factory warranty maintained for about $700. It's amazing how quickly you can get over the shortcomings of the Sky/Solstice when you have double the torque and a whole bunch more power than a Meotter and S2000. I also love the way it looks. That's why I paid money for it, and why I appreciate it as an awesome alternative to the competition. Bryce

FYI I got my kit from GM's crateenginedepot.com for $565.45 shipped.

Convertibles are supposed to leak. If they weren't, they'd have real roofs. Duh.

Cotton wrote: FYI I got my kit from GM's crateenginedepot.com for $565.45 shipped.

Me too. Don't forget the cost to get it installed at the dealership.

Bryce

I guess I am spoiled. Spoiled by better cars. Ane while I respect your right to your opinion, please don't put words in my mouth. I know what a direct injected engine sounds like, and yes, that's part of it. But I can accept that because it has a purpose. But there's no excuse for the school bus sound this car makes. And no, convertibles are not supposed to leak. What an ignorant thing to say. I've had several, most vintage, and if everything was working correctly they didn't leak, so I don't expect an '08 to leak either. For health reasons I can't wash my own car, so it goes to a car wash once a week. I have to carry coffee cans with me so I don't get soaking wet. Say what you want, but that's not nit picking. Both the S2000 and the Miata have vastly superior tops, period. A stock S2000 and GXP have almost exactly the same 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. Yes, you have to rev the S2000, and all in all I'd prefer the torque the GXP has, but what I prefer the most is a balanced automobile, and that's where the GXP falls short, IMO. Fast doesn't always equal driving satisfaction. It sounds like you guys are all about the power, and that's okay, but that's not my only interest, especially because I have two cars that will easily dust it. You may call my problems nit picky, but I don't, mostly because every other late model I've owned in the past 20 years was better. The Solstice is rated terrible for reliability, so I'm thinking my experience isn't unique. I think some of our difference in opinion also comes from the fact that I don't own mine and you do. And I use mine year round commuting 85 miles a day with a passenger. The things I complain about are important for me, but maybe not for you. I also can't just upgrade this car like you can. I have to live with it the way it is. I'm going to just leave it at that.

To me it looks like the Solstice/Miata argument is much like the old Triumph/MG argument.

MGs were always better made, more comfortable and typically better handling than comparable Triumphs, just as the Miata seems to share those virtues over the Solstice. But the Triumph (and Solstice) had gobs of grunt and style that made them pretty appealing, too.

Personally, I'm glad we have both to choose from.

Most people confuse the feel of low end torque with power. GM even uses a progressive cam on many of their cars to make the throttle open wider at the beginnning and less towards the end of the throw to make people think their cars have more power than they really do.

Torque you feel, but HP is what gives you the speed. I said all that to say that side by side my S2000 will beat your Solstice. I have the Miata like feel and gas mileage off VTEC and the "in your face" scream when it's on VTEC. In other words, I have 2 . . . 2 . . . 2 cars in one! So I can double my pleasure, double my fun . . . (sorry, I couldn't resist)

The Sol/Sky combo does have the advantage of the ability to easily get more power than the S, but it's no where nearly as smooth or quiet as the Miata or the S. GM took the bigger hammer approach rather than using a scalpel when they designed the Sol/Sky. If they didn't cost so darn'd much I'd say they did a good job, but at the price point they just need some refinement.

I've never put the top up or down on a Solstice or Sky but I've seen it done once and there is simply no comparing the ease, fit and look of the S2000 (or my 99 Miata) top to the Solstice. I too get water inside when in a car wash - but only if they hold the wand very close to the top of the window and aim it upwards at about a 45 degree angle. In other words water penetration isn't an issue with either car, it shouldn't be an issue on any new car.

Just my .02

bravenrace wrote: I guess I am spoiled. Spoiled by better cars. Ane while I respect your right to your opinion, please don't put words in my mouth. I know what a direct injected engine sounds like, and yes, that's part of it. But I can accept that because it has a purpose. But there's no excuse for the school bus sound this car makes. And no, convertibles are not supposed to leak. What an ignorant thing to say. I've had several, most vintage, and if everything was working correctly they didn't leak, so I don't expect an '08 to leak either. For health reasons I can't wash my own car, so it goes to a car wash once a week. I have to carry coffee cans with me so I don't get soaking wet. Say what you want, but that's not nit picking. Both the S2000 and the Miata have vastly superior tops, period. A stock S2000 and GXP have almost exactly the same 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. Yes, you have to rev the S2000, and all in all I'd prefer the torque the GXP has, but what I prefer the most is a balanced automobile, and that's where the GXP falls short, IMO. Fast doesn't always equal driving satisfaction. It sounds like you guys are all about the power, and that's okay, but that's not my only interest, especially because I have two cars that will easily dust it. You may call my problems nit picky, but I don't, mostly because every other late model I've owned in the past 20 years was better. The Solstice is rated terrible for reliability, so I'm thinking my experience isn't unique. I think some of our difference in opinion also comes from the fact that I don't own mine and you do. And I use mine year round commuting 85 miles a day with a passenger. The things I complain about are important for me, but maybe not for you. I also can't just upgrade this car like you can. I have to live with it the way it is. I'm going to just leave it at that.

I also have a 1960 VW Beetle, so I'm not all about the power, but I do like it! Targa Porsches leaked off the showroom floor....everything working correctly be damned. That doesn't mean they are a piece of junk car though. I have to say I'd much rather have my leaking Targa Porsche than an Accord or some other mind numbing car.

Regardless of 0-60 and 1/4 mile times the FEEL of the power is totally different. You know that. It has power pretty much everywhere as opposed to S2k.

Where do you see the terrible reliability rating? I looked it up on JD Power and the overall dependability is listed as "better than most". I had to look up the 06 model since they have to be at least 3 years old for them to dependability ratings.

Why can't you just get a different company car if you hate this one so much? If your Boss was nice enough to buy this for you maybe he'll let you trade it or give you a monthly allowance. I still can't understand your hatred for the car, but I can tell it isn't going to change, so you might as well try and get rid of it.

carguy123 wrote: Most people confuse the feel of low end torque with power. GM even uses a progressive cam on many of their cars to make the throttle open wider at the beginnning and less towards the end of the throw to make people think their cars have more power than they really do. Torque you feel, but HP is what gives you the speed. I said all that to say that side by side my S2000 will beat your Solstice. I have the Miata like feel and gas mileage off VTEC and the "in your face" scream when it's on VTEC. In other words, I have 2 . . . 2 . . . 2 cars in one! So I can double my pleasure, double my fun . . . (sorry, I couldn't resist)

I dynoed ours at 500 miles and will dyno it again once the kit is on......the power doesn't drop like you're saying. The "low end torque" keeps it up through the RPM range. Actually I'm pretty sure a GXP graph was posted on here recently, which showed that. edit: here is the thread. http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/g37-vs-genesis-on-edmunds/8178/page1/ See the last post on page one.

"I said all that to say that side by side my S2000 will beat your Solstice"

I'll take that drag race. Message me if you're ever near Nashville.

Cool, it's ON!!

How do you do against the new 306 hp 350Zs? I have one of those too. I can launch more consistently with the Z than the S, but the S beats it 9 times out of 10

Cool, it's ON!!

How do you do against the new 306 hp 350Zs? I have one of those too. I can launch more consistently with the Z than the S, but the S beats it 9 times out of 10.

One thing I want to know, since this is a thread on test driving a Camaro why are we talking about Solstices and S's?

Not that I mind

carguy123 wrote: Cool, it's ON!! How do you do against the new 306 hp 350Zs? I have one of those too. I can launch more consistently with the Z than the S, but the S beats it 9 times out of 10

I've never raced a 350Z, but my Boss has one, so maybe I can find out!

The Z feels good on the street, but put it up against another car and you soon see that it's "breathy". Lots of sound and fury, but very little go on the top end of the register. It's revving, but it's not really pulling.

Cotton wrote:

bravenrace wrote: I guess I am spoiled. Spoiled by better cars. Ane while I respect your right to your opinion, please don't put words in my mouth. I know what a direct injected engine sounds like, and yes, that's part of it. But I can accept that because it has a purpose. But there's no excuse for the school bus sound this car makes. And no, convertibles are not supposed to leak. What an ignorant thing to say. I've had several, most vintage, and if everything was working correctly they didn't leak, so I don't expect an '08 to leak either. For health reasons I can't wash my own car, so it goes to a car wash once a week. I have to carry coffee cans with me so I don't get soaking wet. Say what you want, but that's not nit picking. Both the S2000 and the Miata have vastly superior tops, period. A stock S2000 and GXP have almost exactly the same 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. Yes, you have to rev the S2000, and all in all I'd prefer the torque the GXP has, but what I prefer the most is a balanced automobile, and that's where the GXP falls short, IMO. Fast doesn't always equal driving satisfaction. It sounds like you guys are all about the power, and that's okay, but that's not my only interest, especially because I have two cars that will easily dust it. You may call my problems nit picky, but I don't, mostly because every other late model I've owned in the past 20 years was better. The Solstice is rated terrible for reliability, so I'm thinking my experience isn't unique. I think some of our difference in opinion also comes from the fact that I don't own mine and you do. And I use mine year round commuting 85 miles a day with a passenger. The things I complain about are important for me, but maybe not for you. I also can't just upgrade this car like you can. I have to live with it the way it is. I'm going to just leave it at that.

I also have a 1960 VW Beetle, so I'm not all about the power, but I do like it! Targa Porsches leaked off the showroom floor....everything working correctly be damned. That doesn't mean they are a piece of junk car though. I have to say I'd much rather have my leaking Targa Porsche than an Accord or some other mind numbing car. Regardless of 0-60 and 1/4 mile times the FEEL of the power is totally different. You know that. It has power pretty much everywhere as opposed to S2k. Where do you see the terrible reliability rating? I looked it up on JD Power and the overall dependability is listed as "better than most". I had to look up the 06 model since they have to be at least 3 years old for them to dependability ratings. Why can't you just get a different company car if you hate this one so much? If your Boss was nice enough to buy this for you maybe he'll let you trade it or give you a monthly allowance. I still can't understand your hatred for the car, but I can tell it isn't going to change, so you might as well try and get rid of it.

When did I say I hated the car? I don't hate it, but my review of it is 100% accurate based on my experience. As such, I don't think it's a car worthy of praise, that's all. I did forget to mention one of my biggest gripes though, and that is the steering. There is absolutely no feedback through the wheel. This, along with the engine sound and handling, make this car IMO something less than a sports car. Both the miata and the S2000 provide a sportscar like driving experience that the Solstice can't match. It does, however, have a decent ride compared to the others. I would call it a sports touring car more than a sports car. There's nothing wrong with that, but it's not what I look for in a car like this.
Consumer Report's lists it as worse than average for reliability.
No, I can't just get another company car. And don't confuse my criticisms with a lack of appreciation. I very much appreciate having this car. If I didn't have this, I'd have a Malibu, so I'm happy to have it. But that doesn't make it perfect, or even a car that I would buy with my own money. If it was just one or two ot the things I listed I might be overly picky. But add them up, consider the price point, and the result is a car I wouldn't buy. But I don't hate it. One thing I really like about it is that it is much nicer looking than a Saturn Sky!!!!

Hey Nashco, do you have a part number or price for that fuel pump insulator? I went to that website but couldn't find it. Generally, I'm not going to put any money into this car, but might do that depending on the price.