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roninsoldier83
roninsoldier83 GRM+ Memberand Reader
9/14/16 3:54 p.m.

Today I actually got a chance to drive a 2016 Ford Focus RS. To my knowledge, I think it was the only one left on a dealer lot in the state. I was told that it was a customer pre-order car, but the customer ordered it in Nitrous Blue and when it showed up in white, he no longer wanted it. So, I suppose his loss is my proverbial gain.

I actually almost ordered a Focus RS before I bought my 2016 VW Golf R 6MT. Although a few factors steered me away:

-HUGE market adjustment pricing. At the time, they were asking between $5000-$10,000 over sticker. I could never justify that price; especially when I was able to get my Golf R for just over in-voice while it was still in transit. For reference, the only I drove today had “only” a $2500 markup on it.

-Never ending wait times. Most dealers had all of their allotments spoken for within days of taking orders and had no idea when they would be able to even order one; much less actually have one on the lot. Because of the very limited availability, there seemed to be no end to this pattern in sight.

-Despite the great reviews, I have a very hard time ordering such an expensive car without ever actually driving it.

So, that led to me owning a Golf R for the past ~7300 miles. For the record, I have no brand loyalty and have owned 19 cars in my life. With that said, my Golf R has positively been the best daily driver I've ever owned; hands down, no question. I've owned cars that were more fun to drive than my Golf R, but none of them that excelled in so many areas that are relevant to my daily grind. Today I wanted to see how the Focus RS compared to it and make sure I made the right decision.

The RS only had 7 miles on the ticker and I was initially told that they do not let customers drive the RS in order to keep the miles off of them. I debated that it would be tough to tell if the RS is actually a better car than my Golf R if I didn't actually drive it.... They were very polite and conceded the point, but requested I not drive too far. Which, I completely understand, given the rarity and high demand of the car. They even moved around a few cars in order to pull the RS off of the showroom floor. They were very accommodating to say the least.

Disclaimers:

-The entire drive was less than 10 miles (if that). I got a bit of freeway time in, as well as some light to light and a few corners at speed down a very short twisty road. I generally like to take cars I'm test driving to a canyon road, but due to circumstance, that wasn't a possibility today; and for good reason.

Disclaimers:

-No, “Drift mode” and Launch Control were not used.

-I didn't take the engine to redline due to being in the break-in period. However, I did give it enough gas to get a good feel for it.

-I'm at 5200 ft elevation, so YMMV.

This wasn't a full fledged track test like most of us read about and see on Youtube. This was more of a Daily Driver test if I'm being honest.

My thoughts:

-Interior. Golf R wins, all day and all night. Everything about the Golf R looks and feels nicer inside. The VW's infotainment menu's are more intuitive and all of the controls are smoother and seem easier to operate. Honestly, the Focus RS isn't a bad place to be, but the VW feels like it's interior is at least 1 grade higher of a class of car.

I was shocked, but the Golf R actually feels bigger than the Focus RS inside, despite the RS being the larger/heavier car. Don't get me wrong, at 6'2” 210 lbs, I still fit in both of them without a single problem, but the VW feels more spacious in pretty much every way- at least from the driver's seat. Even the trunk in the VW seems deeper/bigger. I haven't looked at interior measurements, so it could all be an illusion, but the Ford feels more cramped by comparison. Again, both have plenty of space inside, the panels & console just don't seem to stick out as far on the VW.

The Recaro seats in the Focus are nice, but I was disappointed that I couldn't adjust the tilt of the seat bottom, as it's stuck in more of an upward bucket style position; which would be great for the track, but I would prefer to lower the front end a bit for daily driving. I would say the Focus RS's seats are maybe just a bit more bolstered, but I don't know if I would call them more comfortable; I would actually prefer the VW's seats for daily driver comfort.

-Exterior. This is highly subjective. I like them both for different reasons. I enjoy the Focus' aggressive styling and think it looks pretty good; but I also appreciate the VW's more subtle, sleeper approach. Pick your flavor.

-Engine/acceleration. I don't care what stat sheets say, I can't really tell the difference. I know that in tests of rolling acceleration they're supposed to be in a dead heat. That's exactly how I felt about them. They seemed to pull equally hard. I know that from a dead stop launch the RS is supposed to take the VW's lunch money due to it having launch control; whereas the VW has a clutch delay valve that makes it tough to launch hard. For me, I haven't done a high RPM clutch drop on my daily driver in many years, so it's not really relevant to me. From a ~5-60mph roll, these things are as close as they come. If the RS is faster, I sure couldn't tell.

Neither of them has much in the way of lag. I keep my Golf R in “Race” mode pretty much constantly, as I prefer the additional throttle response and fake engine noise. Most of the drive in the Focus was spent in “Sport” mode.

They both have aggressive engine tones; although the VW's engine tone is fake! I did hear the backfire sound on the Focus a few times and thought it sounded good; although it did shock me just a bit the first time I heard it!

-Transmission/drivetrain. These cars really start to differ here. The Focus' shifter is very notchy, but has a real positive shift action putting it into gear. It requires a bit more effort than the VW. By contrast, the VW's shifter is about as smooth as a shifter gets; almost too smooth sometimes.

For daily driving, I LOVE the VW's shifter. It's so intuitive and effortless that I don't even notice I'm driving a stick in traffic most of the time. Same thing with the clutch, which is extremely soft and easy to modulate. Absolutely perfect for light to light commuting. Although for playing in the canyons, I would prefer a slightly heavier, more engaging setup.

In the Focus, the shifter feels good, but requires just a bit more effort. The clutch engages higher than the VW's and has just a tad bit more stiffness to it. It's not unbearable and would likely be the setup I preferred in the canyons, but for light to light work, I prefer the VW.

-Handling/suspension. No question, the Focus RS has a stiffer ride. The VW feels much softer by comparison. I felt significantly more road harshness in the Ford. Not unlivable by any means, but the VW is certainly softer. The VW is just firm enough to be fun pitching it around on a back road, but not stiff enough to be race track material and certainly soft enough to be comfortable day to day.

I took a few corners at speed in the Focus RS and I could instantly feel where they money is at- the AWD system in that car is much more aggressive/rear wheel bias. The VW uses a simple Haldex setup, that without a Haldex controller, it feels more like a FWD car with unlimited traction. The Golf R really mimics the way a good FWD car would be setup; whereas the Focus feels more akin to an EVO X. Both seem to have plenty of grip, but it's the way the Focus rotates that allows you to feel the drivetrain at work.

In the Focus RS, you can actually feel the rear wheels helping the car to rotate. Even in “Sport” mode, it just stayed flat and was light on it's feet. It has less body roll than the VW; which is saying something because the Golf R isn't exactly “soft” for a commuter car- it's just soft for this [hot hatch/rally rocket] segment.

I didn't get a chance to play with them in the canyons, but if I did, I'm 99% certain that the Focus RS would be more fun to pitch around. For the daily grind, I prefer the more forgiving ride of the Golf.

-Steering. Mixed bag here. I felt like the Focus had more steering feel, but turning the wheel didn't feel as linear as the Golf. Both have very quick, direct racks.

-Brakes. I didn't really get a chance to push them on the Focus, so I can't comment. I think the big calipers on the VW are excellent, and I'm sure the Focus' brakes would be very good when pushed as well.

Final thoughts:

I made the right choice. The VW is the better car for me. With that said, I'm about to buy a dedicated weekend roadster (narrowed it down to AP2 S2000 or ND Miata) to sit next to it in the garage.

The VW is quick, it handles well, it's very nice/comfortable inside, it gets decent fuel economy, it's AWD, has all the space I need and is a joy to drive daily. However, I bought it with the intention of buying a dedicated RWD sports car to play with on the weekends in canyons, on date nights and at the occasional autoX/track event.

If you can only own 1 car and plan on tracking, autoXing or canyon carving on a regular basis, I can certainly see the appeal of the Focus RS. If for nothing else than the way the Focus RS rotates; as it truly does feel more like an EVO X mid-corner.

I don't think the Focus RS would be terribly difficult to live with, but based on my short test drive, the VW seems like it would be easier to live with.

Basically what I'm saying is, I don't think you can go wrong with either of these cars, but for me the Focus RS feels more like a hooligan car, whereas the Golf R feels like a better daily driver.

I figured I would share my thoughts on these 2 cars from a normal guy that isn't beating these cars to hell on a track. Most of the reviews I've seen are from guys hustling them around a track, or tight canyon roads; which I'm a fan of, but from a normal/daily commute perspective, I don't think the Focus RS is the car to have in this segment. YMMV.

 photo Focus RS 1_zpssqqm1aou.jpg

 photo Focus RS 2_zpskvyqdmen.jpg

 photo Focus RS 3_zpsoz50lpam.jpg

 photo Focus RS 4_zpsx1u3yhqv.jpg

For reference, the only modifications to my Golf R are a set of Neuspeed RSE12 wheels (stock sized 225/40/18 tires) and a tow hook front plate mount (to avoid drilling holes in the bumper).

 photo Golf R RSE12 1_zpsx7fwcaym.jpg

NickD
NickD Dork
9/14/16 3:57 p.m.

Freakish timing, because Motor Trend released this video on youtube today and made a lot of the same points as you

https://www.youtube.com/embed/Oklm3mV6ThE

roninsoldier83
roninsoldier83 GRM+ Memberand Reader
9/14/16 4:00 p.m.
NickD wrote: Freakish timing, because Motor Trend released this video on youtube today and made a lot of the same points as you https://www.youtube.com/embed/Oklm3mV6ThE

That is freakish timing! I read the C&D Lightning Lap article yesterday and saw how much faster the RS was around VIR and it made me think "I really should try to drive one of these".... I haven't even seen the MT video yet! Looks like they beat me to it!

NickD
NickD Dork
9/14/16 4:12 p.m.
roninsoldier83 wrote:
NickD wrote: Freakish timing, because Motor Trend released this video on youtube today and made a lot of the same points as you https://www.youtube.com/embed/Oklm3mV6ThE
That is freakish timing! I read the C&D Lightning Lap article yesterday and saw how much faster the RS was around VIR and it made me think "I really should try to drive one of these".... I haven't even seen the MT video yet! Looks like they beat me to it!

They make most of the same points as you. The Golf R flies under the radar (They wish it was a little more special-looking, because it gets disregarded as just another Golf), the Golf R needs better tires, the Focus RS's ride quality is way too rough and the Focus RS's AWD is way better.

docwyte
docwyte Dork
9/14/16 4:40 p.m.

You guys see where Terry@Vorshlag gets the RS to shut down the rear diff? Apparently Ford has a protect mode where if the rear diff gets too hot it'll basically turn the RS into a fwd car. Terry got this to happen inside of 3 laps at the track. That's not so good...

NickD
NickD Dork
9/14/16 4:46 p.m.
docwyte wrote: You guys see where Terry@Vorshlag gets the RS to shut down the rear diff? Apparently Ford has a protect mode where if the rear diff gets too hot it'll basically turn the RS into a fwd car. Terry got this to happen inside of 3 laps at the track. That's not so good...

Didn't see it but it turned into an argument on the other Focus RS thread. Jason does set the FoRS's front rotors on fire in this video though.

JoeTR6
JoeTR6 HalfDork
9/14/16 5:04 p.m.

Around NoVa, VW dealers would have you believe you can't test drive a Golf R and must special order it. I tried to find one a few months ago (way too late) and walked away disappointed. Couldn't even find a used one to drive. I did sit in a loaded GTI and the seats were the best I've ever felt. The material, bolstering, and supportiveness was spot on. VW has come a long way on interior quality.

When I was considering a FiST last year, the Ford dealer I spoke with claimed a $10k markup for a FoRS. That's just insane. Maybe next year will be better, but I can't see putting that sort of cash into a Focus.

I reached the same conclusion as you. For a daily driver, I'd take the Golf R.

Stefan (Not Bruce)
Stefan (Not Bruce) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/14/16 5:07 p.m.
docwyte wrote: You guys see where Terry@Vorshlag gets the RS to shut down the rear diff? Apparently Ford has a protect mode where if the rear diff gets too hot it'll basically turn the RS into a fwd car. Terry got this to happen inside of 3 laps at the track. That's not so good...

Doesn't seem to happen once the car is broken in around 2K miles or so.

Driving style plays a part as well.

Given the way the Vorshlag guys present themselves, I'm not a huge fan of theirs and until I see proof, they are just trying to sell parts.

Read this thread from someone who has actually taken the car to the track and while he had the power steering and rear diff issues the first go around, they were not to be found after he put more miles on the car:

http://www.focusrs.org/forum/9-focus-rs-discussions/20801-2016-rs-track-car-fast-but-flaws-real.html

OldGray320i
OldGray320i HalfDork
9/14/16 5:27 p.m.

I like the Focus in white (almost wish I'd gotten that color instead of mine), but man I REALLY like the RS in white.

BlueInGreen44
BlueInGreen44 Dork
9/14/16 5:44 p.m.

I'm not surprised that the Golf felt bigger inside. I've always felt that lack of usable interior space is a weakness of the current Focus chassis (and the same goes for the Fiesta)

jv8
jv8 GRM+ Memberand Reader
9/14/16 5:51 p.m.

Man we are on the same page... I also daily drive a blue Golf R and it's my favorite DD of all time!

But I don't see it as a track car... I am currently prepping a C5 Z06 as a track rat.

Thanks for the comparisons! I also feel I made the correct choice.

NickD
NickD Dork
9/14/16 5:54 p.m.
OldGray320i wrote: I like the Focus in white (almost wish I'd gotten that color instead of mine), but man I REALLY like the RS in white.

The blue is my favorite. We had one show up to an autocross in black. Not a fan, the black paint made all the special bodywork blend in. I've come to the realization that I do not like black paint on cars.

roninsoldier83
roninsoldier83 GRM+ Memberand Reader
9/14/16 6:31 p.m.

I just watched the Motor Trend video and it looks like they had some of the same feelings as I do.... however, there is a flaw with their testing and it's the same flaw as I've found in quite a few other reviews: they really only comment on how these cars drive in the canyons and on the track. Which, that's great if you have a very short commute and spend tons of time pitching it around; but not so great if you're like me and spend ~1500 miles a month commuting, mostly in rush hour, light to light traffic.

About a decade ago, I bought a 2006 Subaru STI as a daily driver. I was younger and it was a fun car. It was quick, AWD, yada, yada. When I had a short commute and didn't have kids or a dog, it was fine. When my commute got longer and I had to start taking my son to daycare, ect, it really started to wear me down.

Eventually I sold my STI, and learned something about myself: I'm not a big fan of using my stiff, loud, relatively harsh "track" car as a daily. I sold my STI and did one of the smarter things I've ever done: I bought 2 cars- a BMW 335xi and an NA Miata to use as my weekend playtoy. I discovered that while my STI was certainly faster than my NA Miata, my Miata was a LOT more fun to drive! And my BMW improved my commute drastically.

I've been trying to maintain the 2 car thing ever since: 1 nice, quick, capable/usable AWD daily driver, and 1 pure fun weekend playtoy. To me, life is better this way. YMMV.

And truly, for as much as I love a good hot hatch, I've never found one that was half as much fun as a dedicated RWD 2-seat roadster! A while back I sold my last playtoy (2004 Mazdaspeed Miata) and I'll hopefully be filling it's spot soon.

So, I'm going to have to disagree with all the magazine style reviews out there claiming the Focus RS is the "better car". Based on my short experience with it and feeling it rotate, I would absolutely say it's the "better track car", but for a daily, give me the VW's keys any day of the week. Well, almost any day of the week; as I would probably grab the keys to the Focus RS on the weekend for a spin in the canyons! Any day I have to commute, I'll take the VW.

I think people like Matt Farah, who sold his Focus RS in less than 1000 miles would likely agree with me: http://www.thedrive.com/new-cars/4843/the-ford-focus-rs-is-the-worlds-finest-hot-hatch

jv8 wrote: Man we are on the same page... I also daily drive a blue Golf R and it's my favorite DD of all time! But I don't see it as a track car... I am currently prepping a C5 Z06 as a track rat. Thanks for the comparisons! I also feel I made the correct choice.

+1

I 100% agree, my Golf R does not feel like a "track car", it's really just a nice, playful daily driver that excels at pretty much everything I want in a daily.

Good call on the dedicated C5Z track car! Have fun!

docwyte
docwyte Dork
9/15/16 2:40 p.m.

Stefan, how does more mileage make an over heating issue disappear? I've found Terry to be pretty forthright and honest, he has no dog in the hunt on the RS rear diff, its not like he's selling a different diff/axles, etc...

Stefan (Not Bruce)
Stefan (Not Bruce) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/15/16 2:51 p.m.

In reply to docwyte:

The ECU learns and I suspect that a certain amount of break in occurs.

Similar to how some electronic automatics have to learn to work efficiently and effectively.

Did you read the link I posted?

Tom_Spangler
Tom_Spangler GRM+ Memberand UltraDork
9/15/16 2:52 p.m.

I'm pretty loyal to Ford, but I'd pick the Golf, too. I'm 46 years old, I want something a bit more livable in a DD. And if I'm spending ~$40k, I better be getting a no-compromises car that can do it all and do it well.

z31maniac
z31maniac MegaDork
9/15/16 4:37 p.m.
docwyte wrote: Stefan, how does more mileage make an over heating issue disappear? I've found Terry to be pretty forthright and honest, he has no dog in the hunt on the RS rear diff, its not like he's selling a different diff/axles, etc...

But I bet he will be coming up with a pricey rear diff cooling solution.

Anyone know when the 2017s are going to start showing up? My BRZ is already crazy uncomfortable on the street with the suspension/wheel/tire setup, I could deal with that for useable space and PPOOOOOWWWWAAAAHHH!

bigev007
bigev007 Reader
9/15/16 5:36 p.m.

In reply to docwyte:

I was just at an event where 2 were doing 2 minute drift sessions with a pro driver or an engineer (with a 1 minute passenger change between, and occasional tire changes) for 5 hours straight and 4 other RS's were being autocrossed continuously. No diff issues.

I got 3 drift rides and about 12 autox runs

turtl631
turtl631 Reader
9/16/16 10:56 a.m.

This is great to hear. The early reports of low power output on the dyno and overheating were disheartening.

Now if only VW would bring the Golf R Sportwagen so we could really embrace the practical fun daily driver aspect of it.

petegossett
petegossett GRM+ Memberand UltimaDork
9/16/16 11:43 a.m.
turtl631 wrote: This is great to hear. The early reports of low power output on the dyno and overheating were disheartening. Now if only VW would bring the Golf R Sportwagen so we could really embrace the practical fun daily driver aspect of it.

It's a real shame the Golf R 400/420 got axed. I was really intrigued by that one.

docwyte
docwyte Dork
9/16/16 11:44 a.m.

Yeah, but how do you know there were no rear diff issues? Its not like the car stops driving, its just that the power stops getting sent to the rear diff.

Stefan (Not Bruce)
Stefan (Not Bruce) GRM+ Memberand MegaDork
9/16/16 12:30 p.m.
docwyte wrote: Yeah, but how do you know there were no rear diff issues? Its not like the car stops driving, its just that the power stops getting sent to the rear diff.

Now you're just trolling. It is really, really difficult to drift an AWD car with only the front wheels getting power.

Also, if you bother to actually READ about the rear diff issues, instead of trolling, you'd know that when the rear diff DOES finally overheat, there is an indicator on the dashboard that is impossible to miss along with a message on the display.

We get it, you think Terry and crew at Vorshlag are the greatest thing to car tuning and building since Henessey and you enjoy their brand of insulting their potential customers, passing bad information and doing next to no research before jumping on the bandwagon and creating a bunch of parts to "improve" what they think needs to be improved.

sobe_death
sobe_death HalfDork
9/16/16 12:33 p.m.

In reply to roninsoldier83:

Awesome that you got to take that car out! I've never been able to drive the RS, only ride. I was in that showroom drooling all over it the other day, but I got to drive a Golf R DSG and 100% agree with everything you felt, even from the passenger seat of the RS.

What roads did you get to head out on?

bigev007
bigev007 Reader
9/16/16 12:57 p.m.

In reply to Stefan (Not Bruce):

Yup. Even Ben Collins (the pro driver) would have a hard time drifting it with no rear drive. And my auto-x runs were spread throughout the day. The only issue was one of the cars had no brakes. But they fixed it. Oh, and they went through a LOT of tires. I have video if you're interested, just not sure the rules about plugging my own channel.

etifosi
etifosi SuperDork
9/16/16 1:16 p.m.

I like how the ADM bump label was filled-in with a marker. Nothing says "We really deserve $2,500 over MSRP for the incredible service we provide!" than asking for it via Sharpie.

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