UPDATE:
Ryan Newman is alert and speaking with medical personnel and family per a report released by Roush Racing.
UPDATE:
Ryan Newman is alert and speaking with medical personnel and family per a report released by Roush Racing.
captdownshift said:You can't race production based cars, accidents at 140mph would often prove be fatal. The COT is anything but the issue. Race management and mechanical grip are the concerns.
Racing production engines or based cars would also result in a heck of a lot of illegal street racing, with dangerous results. The domino effect of that would be a whole lot of hard no. You think CAM is bad at an autocross now, wait until Jethro shows up with his Nascar to berkeley E36 M3 up worse than skoal did his jaw.
Not sure how modern production based racing cars would be in terms of big speedways in terms of safety etc. That being said nascar cars have used built chassis etc since the early to mid 60s. Holman moody was building their own chassis and various times then ford were racing cars that in stock trim were unibody so nascar did permit different frames.
the street racing argument seems silly what about all the production based gt,touring car,rally etc racing.
FSP_ZX2 said:UPDATE:
Ryan Newman is alert and speaking with medical personnel and family per a report released by Roush Racing.
Great news!
In reply to MotorsportsGordon :
Come to OCMD in September. It used to be every German car owner playing DTM driver, in the past decade the turbo Subaru guys and Ford ST owners have taken over.
Now imagine crowds of 50-100k 30 times a year...
It'd be bad.
captdownshift said:Racing production engines or based cars would also result in a heck of a lot of illegal street racing, with dangerous results. The domino effect of that would be a whole lot of hard no. You think CAM is bad at an autocross now, wait until Jethro shows up with his Nascar to berkeley E36 M3 up worse than skoal did his jaw.
Too late. NASCAR levels of power have been available right off the showroom floor (warranty and all) from multiple manufacturers for a few years, and the aftermarket has been well beyond for eons...Yet, somehow the world has managed to keep turning.
captdownshift said:In reply to MotorsportsGordon :
Come to OCMD in September. It used to be every German car owner playing DTM driver, in the past decade the turbo Subaru guys and Ford ST owners have taken over.
Now imagine crowds of 50-100k 30 times a year...
It'd be bad.
So your philosophy would be to ban all production based car racing? Btw dtm hasn't been production based since the series was revived in 2000. V8 supercars in Australia has been tube frame for years. What is your thought on cars that use a race chassis but look like the street cars.
these cars are all tube frame not built on a street car.
Once Newman is fully recovered (hopefully he will be) I will be interested to hear his take on all of this.
Had this accident occurred at 150 mph in a production mustang would Newman have done better? I would doubt it. The greenhouse is quite a bit smaller putting his head closer to the impact and there isn't enough room for the reinforcements that are in a cup car. Maybe you could argue that self preservation would keep them from pushing a stock bodied car as hard but I don't know many racers that think that way.
MotorsportsGordon said:captdownshift said:You can't race production based cars, accidents at 140mph would often prove be fatal. The COT is anything but the issue. Race management and mechanical grip are the concerns.
Racing production engines or based cars would also result in a heck of a lot of illegal street racing, with dangerous results. The domino effect of that would be a whole lot of hard no. You think CAM is bad at an autocross now, wait until Jethro shows up with his Nascar to berkeley E36 M3 up worse than skoal did his jaw.
Not sure how modern production based racing cars would be in terms of big speedways in terms of safety etc. That being said nascar cars have used built chassis etc since the early to mid 60s. Holman moody was building their own chassis and various times then ford were racing cars that in stock trim were unibody so nascar did permit different frames.
the street racing argument seems silly what about all the production based gt,touring car,rally etc racing.
I can't speak to others, but stage rally is not production based at all except for the lower classes. The car has to sort of resemble the street car they claim it is, and they have to start with a factory shell, but that's it. They get chopped and channeled and reinforced and lightened. They don't even have to use production based engines in WRC anymore.
Yeah no, production based NASCAR is not going to happen at Daytona. Would I like to see a short track series based on that concept? Hell yes. But it's not a viable option. The NASCAR chassis is really super safe, one of the few things they've done right. But the aerodynamic super-streamlined body not only hampers racing, but it allows for these big packs. Get the cars up off the ground, get air flowing under them, they won't be handling as good as they do now and maybe the racing will spread out a bit. If they could get back even to the way it was in the 90s, that would be an improvement.
slowbird said:Yeah no, production based NASCAR is not going to happen at Daytona. Would I like to see a short track series based on that concept? Hell yes. But it's not a viable option. The NASCAR chassis is really super safe, one of the few things they've done right. But the aerodynamic super-streamlined body not only hampers racing, but it allows for these big packs. Get the cars up off the ground, get air flowing under them, they won't be handling as good as they do now and maybe the racing will spread out a bit. If they could get back even to the way it was in the 90s, that would be an improvement.
To add on this, they do seem to listen and there is aero changes for short tracks this year.
In reply to captdownshift :
I feel like the H2O idiots are not racing fans? What kind of racing fan would stance a car like they do?
In reply to AnthonyGS :
The GWC finish idea came from short track racing. It's proved that it doesn't work with 200 mph race conditions.
In reply to slowbird :
I don't believe those cars were less prone to heavy wrecks, they're the reason we have plates and roof flaps now. These crashes seem less severe because cars had already fallen off the pace preventing big packs.
https://www.racing-reference.info/showblog?id=3280
old road and track article at test track test between tim richmonds nascar Monte Carlo and al Holbert porsche 962. The 962 went to 227 mph while the stock car got up to 240 mph.
bentwrench said:In reply to Will :
Wasn't fuel obviously, the oil tank is there so likely that.
It's not worth arguing over, and the important thing is that Ryan is alive, but I could have sworn I was watching clear liquid pouring out of the back of the car.
In reply to MotorsportsGordon :
I have that cover on my garage wall. I imagine they were kicking themselves for not bringing low drag bodywork for the Porsche.
Will said:bentwrench said:In reply to Will :
Wasn't fuel obviously, the oil tank is there so likely that.
It's not worth arguing over, and the important thing is that Ryan is alive, but I could have sworn I was watching clear liquid pouring out of the back of the car.
That's where the coolant overflow winds up.
Tom1200 said:Once Newman is fully recovered (hopefully he will be) I will be interested to hear his take on all of this.
I just wanted to quickly touch on this without totally detailing what I thinks is great debate, but Ryan Newman in the past has been one of the louder critics of modern plate racing. Several sound blurbs popped up today all saying mostly the same thing- it's gonna take someone getting killed for NASCAR to change anything...
Realistically, all that has to happen is for a couple of the major teams to say they aren't racing Daytona/Talladega until specific changes are made. They'd have to be willing to take the hit on points and revenue, but a couple big names sitting out a race or two and things would change in a hurry.
Unfortunately, I disagree. Remember, Bill France Sr. threatened drivers with a ban when there were talks of Talladega being unsafe and forming a union.Now drivers get fined just for criticizing the series.
I agree that something needs to change, but didn't ISC sell itself to NASCAR last year? No way is NASCAR going to remove tracks it owns from the schedule no matter how much drivers complain. Short of all the teams just not showing up or the tracks sinking into the sea, those tracks are on the tour forever.
It's going to take more than drivers saying "We won't run at Daytona or Talladega."
It's going to take Coke saying they won't sponsor a race there.
It's going to take Ford saying they won't support a race there.
It's going to take sponsors saying "We don't want to see our name on a car at those tracks."
It's going to take fans saying "I won't buy a ticket, and I won't watch on TV."
In reply to Wally :
I mean, that's kind of what I mean. The initial crash Newman had was hard, but then getting t-boned while upside down was the worst part, and that may not have happened if some of those cars had fallen back from the leaders. It isn't a foolproof solution, but it's kind of trying to get things slightly less chaotic at the end.
Will said:Unfortunately, I disagree. Remember, Bill France Sr. threatened drivers with a ban when there were talks of Talladega being unsafe and forming a union.Now drivers get fined just for criticizing the series.
I agree that something needs to change, but didn't ISC sell itself to NASCAR last year? No way is NASCAR going to remove tracks it owns from the schedule no matter how much drivers complain. Short of all the teams just not showing up or the tracks sinking into the sea, those tracks are on the tour forever.
It's going to take more than drivers saying "We won't run at Daytona or Talladega."
It's going to take Coke saying they won't sponsor a race there.
It's going to take Ford saying they won't support a race there.
It's going to take sponsors saying "We don't want to see our name on a car at those tracks."
It's going to take fans saying "I won't buy a ticket, and I won't watch on TV."
It's not 1969 either anymore formula one etc was all like that aswell back in those days. It's a different world now even in nascar as there are now the nascar charter teams so if it came to that nascar would be in a difficult situation. Those teams are guaranteed starting positions and money in every points race. So the bill france strategy definitely won't work anymore. Especially now with so limited cars and teams compared to back then.
Wally said:In reply to MotorsportsGordon :
I have that cover on my garage wall. I imagine they were kicking themselves for not bringing low drag bodywork for the Porsche.
As I recall, they did bring low drag tail bodywork, and had a huge struggle to swap it in after the first few runs, having to even remove the half-shafts. This was contrasted with the NASCAR guys taping up some seams with racer tape.
Forrest in Atlanta
golfduke said:Tom1200 said:Once Newman is fully recovered (hopefully he will be) I will be interested to hear his take on all of this.
I just wanted to quickly touch on this without totally detailing what I thinks is great debate, but Ryan Newman in the past has been one of the louder critics of modern plate racing. Several sound blurbs popped up today all saying mostly the same thing- it's gonna take someone getting killed for NASCAR to change anything...
If the most popular driver in the series getting killed didn't really change much, then I doubt anything will really change. Many of the changes made to the tracks (safer barriers), cars (better cages) and seats (HANS) have really just been symptom treatments and did nothing to change the underlying cause (plate racing).
I agree it will be interesting to hear Newman's take on the crash. My take is he tried to block getting passed by Blaney and paid the price when it went wrong. Both were just doing what they needed to do to win, and thus it was a racing incident.
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