The 2021 rule package might be of some help to the problem.
The 2021 rule package might be of some help to the problem.
After bobby Allison's crash later that year they tried using the smaller Busch series carburetors and pole speed was 203 mph. After the Busch series stopped using the v6 they used same displacement v8 with a smaller 4 barrel carb and lower compression ratio,9 to 1 vs 14 to 1 in cup and still used the plates.
I think they may have made a mistake with that tall spoiler. It does increase drag and drag until another car comes up close behind. Then the effects are altered. Less drag and less down force on the lead car.
I wonder if they put a very slippery substance, or maybe some vertical rollers, on the rear bumper, it would prevent a rear car from pushing a front car around if its bumper happens to be up against it and they moved in different directions.
In reply to snailmont5oh :
It seems like the "push" is largely an aerodynamic effect, though.
So far, the solutions presented here will make pack racing worse by removing horsepower, cause more crashes by making the cars drive worse, kill all sorts of people in the stands by taking the restrictors off, or remove a vast source of income and interest by bulldozing the superspeedways.
I think we have captured NASCARs difficulties quite well in this thread.
In reply to Streetwiseguy :
I stopped paying attention to WRC as they made the cars more and more boring, and it sounds like the same BS as NASCAR except it's one-at-a-time instead of pack racing. They restrict the engines but leave the suspension and aero free, which leads to boring technical slot-car driving, which is not much of a spectacle.
For WRC I've always said if they wanted to make the cars slower, make suspension travel 6" maximum. Maybe ban external reservoirs on the dampers. Restricting the engines doesn't make the cars safer, it just makes the drivers take more chances so they don't lose speed.
I don't know how that would translate to NASCAR. Would the cars handle better if they had stabilizer bars banned, so they couldn't hav soft springs to ride on the bumpstops and use 4" stabilizers to control handling?
In reply to Knurled. :
I have a theorey about sports in general, but it doesn't work for stock car racing, unless you invert the rule. Basically, most sports have been hurt by the size and strength of the players. Any stick and ball sport would be made faster and more fun by increasing the size of the playing surface to bring it back into proportional with the players.
Stock car racing needs to go smaller, narrower and flatter.
In reply to Streetwiseguy :
Autocross?
Stampie said:In reply to Streetwiseguy :
Autocross?
Bristol, North Wilksborough, Road America, Darlington. Places where smart, tough, fit drivers can drive to the front.
I have often wondered about the old IROC series engine/chassis/aero combination. I used to love watching those races and there seemed to always be someone passing without wrecking. The cars seemed much more stable and maneuverable. I think the lap times were a bit slower but the racing was really good. Maybe that was just teenage me, but I've often wondered if the answer to the superspeedway racing had already been found.
Anybody know more about those cars and maybe shed some light?
Snow tires.
In reply to appliance_racer :
For cars that ran in smaller packs with great drivers those races went to E36 M3 pretty regularly.
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=yZVWiyXJdbo
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=mYchmxS6N0g&list=UUk3XU000ejSQrysO6IBzEkw&index=29
Derek Bell appears to be the inspiration for Ricky Bobby's breakdown when he tries to exit a still sliding car:
Knurled. said:In reply to snailmont5oh :
It seems like the "push" is largely an aerodynamic effect, though.
Not really. When they're "bump drafting", as in the rear car's front bumper is jammed against the front car's rear bumper, and the rear car is actively pushing the front car by direct contact, any difference in motion of the two cars will generally cause the front car to slide sideways or spin out. It's like a pit maneuver, only the friction between the bumpers is the source of the side load. Yes, there is some downforce removed from the front car because of having the rear car right there, but that just makes it easier for the rear driver to turn the front guy around. And I'm not saying that he does it intentionally; the guy that spun Ryan said that he knew he was gonna push him to the win, and at least it was a Ford, and then they hit a bump and it all went to E36 M3.
appliance_racer said:I have often wondered about the old IROC series engine/chassis/aero combination. I used to love watching those races and there seemed to always be someone passing without wrecking. The cars seemed much more stable and maneuverable. I think the lap times were a bit slower but the racing was really good. Maybe that was just teenage me, but I've often wondered if the answer to the superspeedway racing had already been found.
Anybody know more about those cars and maybe shed some light?
The cars were a couple hundred pounds lighter, maybe a little lower and I think the tires were an inch or two wider, but made 150 less horsepower maybe than the Cup cars of the time? 400 less than today's non-restrictor plate cars. But the throttle response of an IROC car was much better than a restrictor-plate car. I actually think the main variable was the race length which turned it into much less of a chess game. At the same time, they still were concerned with not using up their tires. I'm having a hard time pinning it down. Also it was the best drivers of the time --- all killer no filler with no crashers or rich kids out there.
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