That's it...I'm just going to have to go dirt track racing again...

ClemSparks wrote: It begins. I purchased an S10 manual steering box off CL for $10 today. That's right, I don't have the car, but I'm collecting deal-priced parts. I figure this will help spread out the cost of putting one together (even if it's putting a roller back together). I also spied a well-used-looking hobby stock roller on CL about 4 hours away for $400. If the cage is in good shape, that's going to be hard to pass up (especially after the price comes down a bit). Clem

Heh, heh. Once a racer, always a racer. Good luck, man!

HappyJack wrote:

mattbatson wrote: I also run a welded diff...wonder how that would do on an oval...

Push like a dumptruck. At least on paved ovals

We always ran a locked rear, but you have to get good at figuring out how much stagger you will need on a given night.

Well...I have an agreement-in-principle to trade my crusty old '74 CL360 Honda (bike) for an equally crusty old Monte Carlo hobby stock car.

[Heh, I pretty much have to think in Robert Duvall/Harry Hogge voice "They's nothing stahk about a stahk cah" anytime I say "stock car."]

Anyway, with any luck, I might be able to go drag it home later this month (it's about 3.5 hours away or so). I think I might incorporate into my trip to get it home, a stop at the track I plan to race at. I can see an evening of racing and hopefully arrange to have a tech inspector look over the car so I can see what I'll need to do to be sure it's legal.

I'm officially scrounging parts...let me know if you have something I might need. Shocks, wheels, helmet, harnesses (even an outdated one...I can use it for setup and practice in the back 40), 2 bbl carburetor, Explosion proof bellhousing for a chevy, gauges, clutch parts, etc.

Yeehaw!

Photos upon receipt.

Clem

Clem, I got nothin..haven't owned a domestic since about 1982 or so. I'm sure as hell cheerin' ya on though! Good luck, man! Seriously Grassroots.

zomby woof wrote: Those lemons, and chumpcar races are fine, but add it up. They're still way too expensive.

Funny some guys at work and myself thought about doing a LeMons car. After doing the math a GRM 20XX challenge car is much cheaper.

You can get started in a legends car for close to the same money as a LeMons.

You can get started in a legends car for close to the same money as a LeMons.

SAAAAYYY WHAAAAAA???? uhhhh...yer not doin' it right. That is, unless you can buy a legends car with brand new tires and porterfields for $1,000.

Oh, and Clem, this makes me wish we were neighbors. Same deal for me. Two tracks (one north, one south,) 1/2 hour drive for either one. When I've got the spare dough, it's on the immediate "to do" list. Lemme know how the drivers' attitudes are compared to autox / roadracing. I've seen my fair share of fistfights at the local track; though most are in the more competitive classes.

In reply to poopshovel:

Ok, how much are you paying for cage-new brakes-tires-spares (you know you are gonna blow something) and that ridiculously high entry fee.

Craigslist Legends car $5000 asking price - entry fee $25 bucks.

I haven't put in half the effort in finding a decent & cheap Legends car that I have in finding a crap-can car so I am sure I can drop the price.

And when it is done I still have something with the legends car I can sell for a reasonable amount, definitely much more than the scrap weight value of the LeMons vehicle

Maybe yer not doin' it right.

The entry fee is the killer. At least when you spend money on a car, you still have some of it.

The huge majority of circle track people are great. They're there for exactly the same reasons as you, to have a good time, and you'll find them friendly, and helpful.

Tracks have a pretty good handle on fighting nowadays, and don't generally tolerate it. OTOH, knowing that the threat is always there keeps some people inline. Dirt can be a contact sport, but usually in a good way.

FlightService wrote: In reply to poopshovel: Ok, how much are you paying for cage-new brakes-tires-spares (you know you are gonna blow something) and that ridiculously high entry fee. Craigslist Legends car $5000 asking price - entry fee $25 bucks. I haven't put in half the effort in finding a decent & cheap Legends car that I have in finding a crap-can car so I am sure I can drop the price. And when it is done I still have something with the legends car I can sell for a reasonable amount, definitely much more than the scrap weight value of the LeMons vehicle Maybe yer not doin' it right.

Okee doke, I'm not going to try to threadjack here, and I certainly wasn't trying to say "THIS form of racing is better than 'that' one. I'm just saying if the reason you're not doing LeMons is because you think it's going to cost $5,000, that shouldn't be the case.

Our "new" LeMons car is a Mazda MX3, purchased as a 'roller' for $75 from the local mazda junkyard.

The BP that went in is from an escort GT I scored via insurance auction for $250, which gave us engine, trans., etc., etc. We recouped about $150 in scrap, I sold the wheels for $100, and I've still got a pile of parts for sale.

Cage tubing was a little over $300 (we'll call it $350.) We bent and welded it ourselves this time, but on the last car (which is about to run its 5th LeMons by the way...and was sold for $400 all-in for a consistent top-five lap-time car,) we scored a close-out autopower cage for $350 shipped.

The porterfields are about $150, and worth every penny.

Azenis are $80 a pop including mounting, and 6 tires are plenty to get us through a weekend at CMP, (actually, we've never used more than 5 - one blowout from contact.) $480 total.

I'm not including anything for consumables and spares - stuff's going to break on you legends car too, and it'll need gas and fluids.

We're at a little over $1,000. Let's call it $1,200, as I've probably missed something. Divided by 6 drivers, that's $200 a pop. Entry fee is $183/driver.

That's $383 per driver for the first event, and a good little chunk of that is a "one time" fee. Again, obviously stuff is going to break on any race car. Legends, LeMons, whatever.

Regarding the 'scrap value' thing: People who "scrap" their LeMons car after the event are either stupid, lazy, or stupid rich and don't mind throwing away money. That's all well and good for some folks, I suppose.

Are you going to have 5 co-drivers to split the cost of your legends racer? Are you going to get a 2 1/2 hour stint in the driver's seat? How many times will you have to load/unload/haul to get 15 hours of racing in? Are left-hand-turns going to get old after a while?

I'm sure this is reading like I'm being a smart ass. I'm not trying to be. Just saying that if the cost is the only thing keeping you away from lemons, you might want to reconsider.

aaaaand threadjack over. Dirt track roundy-round sounds/looks awesome too. Can't wait to try it one day...hopefully in the LeMons car, which is probalby going to serve as a rallycrosser/PDX slut too.

I thought I read the entrance fee was $500/driver.

Left turns don't get boring, and we don't get dizzy, either

I just found out/noticed that the track I'm looking at is done running for the year. I guess they decided that they'd had enough and that turnout was poor. They say they're looking at class/rules changes for next year.

Hopefully there will still be something I want to run. However, even if there isn't I'm sure something will come along eventually. Plus maybe I can look for some enduros. I'd haul a little farther for an enduro!

Clem

Yeah I read the fee was alot higher.

"$500 per car $100 per driver $75 for non-drivers" (http://www.24hoursoflemons.com/pricesandrules.aspx) So for the minimum 4 man driving team, you are out $900.00!!! Plus your $1200.00 "$500" car you are at $2100.00 you discount what you can recoup. Let's be generous and get your $500 back you are at $1700 for one race with a reoccouring cost of $900 per race.

Say you run your 5 races. 5*$900 plus your $1200 car has you at $5700

Now I still like the LeMons/Crap Can idea and when I can throw that much money at something I will. Plus my 4th driver just left work (to move in with his new wife. How lame )

I think a spec E30 would also be a good car to run if I had a few more events closer.

In the end as long as we are all racing right? or for the oval guys left?

In reply to ClemSparks:

I am lucky, I have the worlds fastest half mile dirt track 20 minutes away, an asphalt track 25 minutes away and Bristol an hour and a half away. I think track proximity has alot to do with what you want to run.

damn you all, now I'm thinking about giving dirt roundyround a try... problem is the only roundyround anywhere near here is Richmond International Raceway and they don't exactly do saturday night grassroots-level stuff, no idea where the closest dirt oval is other than one 1.5-2 hours north of here that a buddy of mine's race team runs at (he's pit crew for said team)

You can drive to East TN LOL

While thinking about it last night, it occurred to me that the kind of racing I want to do is basically Vintage racing...with the exception that we expect to bend some sheet metal.

You have to run old SBC blocks and heads. You have to run a carburetor. You have to run stock suspension mounting points. Most of the cars running are, by default, vintage (as in, the cars would be eligible for historic status on the streets). [but...that's pretty much the case with most rear drive passenger cars anymore]

No real point to this post...just a thought I had.

Clem

The cost of the car is only the start. The weekly/race expenses add up quickly.

iceracer wrote: The cost of the car is only the start. The weekly/race expenses add up quickly.

Newsflash!

Clem, you and I need to get together sometime soon to discuss an idea I had. It's related to Woody's Monoposto project or the F600 thread from a few weeks ago. Unfortunately the family's sick right now and I don't know when I'll have time, but I'll let you know.

In reply to stroker: All are VW race cars; We have a Chumpcar,oval tracker, and 2 Road racers. The Chumpcar entry is 900$ per 4 drivers. It does cost a lot to run for 12 or 14 hours. The cost of the car plus tires, fuel etc. works out to be near 700$ per driver per event. It could be done for less if you wanted to go short on the prep level. I cant stand my stuff breakin, so I prep pretty hard. The CC races are real cool with a vast array of cars. big ass LTD cop cars, Cameros, VW Golf, Saab, merc diesel?? Big fun. The dirt oval 4 cyl class is the most fun that you can have in a car, if you cant get to the ice races. The downside is having to fix the car a lot and the dirt... Big fun per dollar tho. Nice if you have time to work on your car all week. The cost is about 100$ per week if you dont get wrecked. The cost per race for road racing is not as high as it first seems. 300-400 per weekend but you get some good racing and about 2 hrs of track time. depending on class and car..
Any racing cost money. The small cars seem to have a different class of racers. A little smarter maybe and most are pretty nice. The small fuel use/tire use, all helps keep it fun. Dont think that just because you are a pretty smart guy, that you are going to go and kick butt at the ovals,not gunna happen.. IMHO. MM

msogren wrote: In reply to stroker: All are VW race cars; We have a Chumpcar,oval tracker, and 2 Road racers. The Chumpcar entry is 900$ per 4 drivers. It does cost a lot to run for 12 or 14 hours. The cost of the car plus tires, fuel etc. works out to be near 700$ per driver per event. It could be done for less if you wanted to go short on the prep level. I cant stand my stuff breakin, so I prep pretty hard. The CC races are real cool with a vast array of cars. big ass LTD cop cars, Cameros, VW Golf, Saab, merc diesel?? Big fun. The dirt oval 4 cyl class is the most fun that you can have in a car, if you cant get to the ice races. The downside is having to fix the car a lot and the dirt... Big fun per dollar tho. Nice if you have time to work on your car all week. The cost is about 100$ per week if you dont get wrecked. The cost per race for road racing is not as high as it first seems. 300-400 per weekend but you get some good racing and about 2 hrs of track time. depending on class and car.. Any racing cost money. The small cars seem to have a different class of racers. A little smarter maybe and most are pretty nice. The small fuel use/tire use, all helps keep it fun. Dont think that just because you are a pretty smart guy, that you are going to go and kick butt at the ovals,not gunna happen.. IMHO. MM

Who, me?

I think, the way the forum software is set up that folks often hit "reply" at the bottom of the last post of the thread to reply to the thread. What this does thought is automatically put "in reply to..." at the beginning of their post.

So...not necessarily meant to be specifically to you, I'm thinking.

Clem

Looky what I dragged home yesterday!

Warning: It's UGLY

I traded an equally crusty old CB360 Honda for it. Basically, I've got a cage and a starting point for very little money invested.

I'm pretty excited to have it...even though it will be a while (months/years) before I get to really do anything with it.

[edit: added a better photo]

Clem

That's a nice looking car, is the rule book on line anywhere?

Damn. These starter classes allow 4 banger pickups? Those are DIRT cheap (ha ha). Now I'm going to start Googling dirt ovals in my area.

Thanks a lot, guys.