The anti GRM car

tuna55 wrote: Sorry, I can't go for the CRX - I just can't.

I am fine with that. What I was getting at is that there may be some value to be gain from a perfectly preserved example of what was at its time a common daily driver. The tough part being that it must be a perfectly preserved example. The CRX example was intended to be akin to a 55-57 Chevy. They served as daily drivers when they were new but most of them were used up. Finding clean, unmolested examples is difficult.
The intended joke on the CRX example being that it would be near impossible to find a pristine example considering what Fast and Furious and the whole rice scene have done to that make.

What you seem to be shopping are "non-daily driver" type cars and that is good too. For that, I too agree on the specialty Corvettes and GNX. The major benefit you also have here is that the Corvette community is already in place to continue to fuel the future desirability.

tuna55 wrote: Sorry, I can't go for the CRX - I just can't.

A stock, rust-free example will definitely appreciate. They're very rare in this condition and there are clean examples popping up for decent money.

Hell, I think that a clean, low-mileage EG Civic hatchback would be a good one to store away. They're starting to climb, too.

Don't be so quick to discount the FWD import thing. That (modding) boom in the late 90's was very close to the musclecar boom and the people who were involved in it will inevitably try to recapture those days by building another car in that style--probably in another 5 years. Hell--I'm starting to see hints of it now.

It's no different than a baby boomer trying to locate older Detroit muscle.

I had a perfect '91 CRX si. And just like my LS-6 Chevelle, I sold it for some stupid reason when it was worth nothing. I don't know if cars in general are a good investment or not, but I apparently don't have the knack for it.

The ones that post the highest gains are usually the ones that were stuck to teenager's bedroom walls back when our biological age matched the age we acted. Trouble is that these cars weren't cheap back then and are unlikely to fit in your budget right now either.

The money you're talking about will probably buy you something that'll keep its value (IOW, it's value will keep pace with inflation) but are you going to double or triple your money in the short run? I doubt that.

I'd go for the cleanest, low-mileage sought-after car that you can find and then would try to improve its condition, preferably without spending a fortune.

Just for the record, I am not discounting FWD anything, just the CRX, unless something immaculate shows up for a song.

Just looking for something more lustworthy.

I am sure I prefer the ZR1 to the Viper.

A GNX would be very cool, but the temptation to change everything about it would be too great and they are already uber expensive.

Your plan better include an uncluttered, climate controlled garage...the thing about stocks is that you can't cause it to depreciate while trying to carry a ladder back into the basement...

Investing in cars seems like such a bad idea. You really need to take a risk and wait a LONG time to make money. Think about it, clean, low mileage (ie not used for fun like you hinted at) from the 60's and 70's are just now worth enough to make it worth it...so if you're looking at 80's and 90's cars you'll have to wait until at least 2030 to sell.

Pretty much any car that has a top that will go down.

Early Mustang convertibles, then Fox body Saleens, the "feature"(?) Mustangs of the early 90's....

I get this itch every time I read Classic Motorsports and look at the auction reviews.

You're not the only one. Heck, I get that itch every time I go near ebay[1].

[1] Roughly once a day when I'm bored.

miatame2 wrote: Your plan better include an uncluttered, climate controlled garage...the thing about stocks is that you can't cause it to depreciate while trying to carry a ladder back into the basement... Investing in cars seems like such a bad idea. You really need to take a risk and wait a LONG time to make money. Think about it, clean, low mileage (ie not used for fun like you hinted at) from the 60's and 70's are just now worth enough to make it worth it...so if you're looking at 80's and 90's cars you'll have to wait until at least 2030 to sell.

Collectible auto insurance is really cheap, and usually based on claimed value.

I have insurance on my '60 model Elky which only costs about $150 bucks per year, allows me to enjoy it regularly, and would payout $25K if I ever wrecked it. I DO have to keep it in a garage, but it is not climate controlled, and is VERY cluttered.

I ain't a tax lawyer, but...

Don't be too sure about the tax status on your gain there. While you might not get a 1099 on the sale, any check in 5 figgers is gonna get reported to the IRS twice, once on the writing end and once on the depositing end. The IRS can ask you where that money came from and if you say, well, we bought this here car for 20 large and sold it for 60 large, they're gonna say, that's really great, if you can find your receipt for the 20 large, you owe taxes on 40 large. Taxes on 60 if you can't. All at your current incremental tax rate, which Uncle O is trying to boost. Oh, plus a penalty for not reporting that on your taxes.

I was going to suggest the GNX as well. They do pop up from time to time for a decent price, but go very fast when they do. GN's are starting to go up and fast.

The cars mentioned so far are mostly all of the ones that I would go for. Look at cars that have strong club/group followings, that is generally a good indication that there is a following that given time would pay a premium for that particular car. Though look at the people that are interested in the car as well.

Another thing don't buy something just to look at it as an investment, because it might flop you never know. Buy something that you want that has the potential to raise in value but wouldn't mind just hanging onto and driving until you are dead.

So what 911s have the potential to go up like I am talking about?

blaze86vic wrote: The future of a collectors car's value is based on what society will find cool in several years.

True, and if you can accurately predict the future, you can make cubic boat-loads of money in any number of venues.

tuna55 wrote: So what 911s have the potential to go up like I am talking about?

Unfortunately I would guess they are the ones that are already out of your budget - Carrera 3.2 & 964 Speedsters, Carrera 3.2 Club Sport, 964 RS (the "real" thing, not the 964 RS America, but that's quite rare too). Plus of course genuine Carrera 3s and all that. Basically, anything rare and fast. Ruf Yellowbirds, for example.

If you're serious looking at 911s then buy a good standard SC or 3.2 and learn their quirks before you drop money on a rarer one. Unless you buy a dog you shouldn't lose money on a 911, but the chances of buying a fake or a dog increase exponentially the rarer the car gets. And 911 that go 'woof' are a shorter route to ruin than blowing the lot on coke & hookers.

If I sell mine in the next year or two, I will lose money on it because I've had to get some repairs done to bodywork issues that the "expert" who did a pre-purchase inspecting somehow overlooked or deemed insignificant. The value of the car has increased as a result, but less than the cost of the repairs. But I've considerably decreased the likelyhood of the front suspension losing contact with the rest of the bodywork so the repair was worth it to me.

Just when the number of possible candidates was settling down...

What about Firebirds (RIP Pontiac)? Other Pontiacs? Special-edition or third-party tuner 4th-gen F-bodies?

Acura NSXs? (I have no idea about their retained value, but I bet they were on a lot of walls, or, if not, would be a reasonable substitute in a few years for the Countach or Diablo that WAS on the wall.)

I also second the idea of unmolested Fox Mustangs, if there are any left.

NSXs actually keep their value very well in the US by the looks of it, but I'd think a good one would be beyond the OP's budget.

NSX is a good idea, but I think the current price may be too high - I will check on that.

No F bodies - I have a bad feeling about the collector market for anything post 72ish except Smokey and the Bandit clones (no way!)

No Foxes either - too common for me.

I'd suggest one of the Solstice hardtops.

There's not going to be many in the wild, yet there was no intent of them to be limited production.

I still say cars are meant to be driven though, not stored and rubbed down with a diaper periodically.

Another thought on my initial theory. One of the reasons that I felt the Corvette (1967 for those who haven't read the whole thing) is that the 67 was the end of the really classic styling. It got the good brakes, the best engines, and the best suspension of that era. People look on that fondly. That's one of the reasons an 84 will never be looked at that way, because as successful as the 4th gen vette was, the beginning of that era is silly. Why would you buy an 84 with no hp when you can by a 96 grand sport from the same era car? People generally look to the end of eras when values increase, in my opinion. In this vein, is a SC 911, the last of the 'no frills' 911 going to go up? Is the 993, last of the aircooled going to go up?

E30 M3

The anti e30 M3 MB 190E 2.3-16 Cosworth

The Cosworth will never be worth hella money because of the EVO1,2 models and AMG models. Notice how many people in your age group have said E30 M3... Race cars with a history bring money.

I've been seeing a slow trend in the upswing in value for classic j-tin: 240Z, Celica's, and others. Possibly due to the cost of their similar year European counterparts.

Problem currently is, it's a risky one: Who knows what the market will be like in 10 years?

I thought about this as well after loosing half of my 401k and IRAs. I am young so it wasn't a huge amount of money but it was more than I have ever spent on a car (which isn't saying that much).

Hindsight is 20/20 and I would have liked to have spent the money on something else but I also realize that cars cost money to maintain, insure and register. They also take space and it would still end up being just as big a gamble.

On that note I would read what Andy Reid writes in Classic and make a choice from there. He has been in the game for a while and knows whats going on. I think that E30 M3's will continue to appreciate but not at the rate that they have in the past 5 - 10 years. Think about the maintence costs as well. If the motor in a E30 M3 or 911 takes a crap on you it will probably cost you 5-15 years in appreciation. Also consider that a good paint job runs $5k+ and the repainted cars fetch less money than the original ones.

I recently bought a 47k mile Spark Yellow one owner 79 RX-7 for $2k. It needed some paint work and will undoubtedly cost me at least a grand in other random needs within the first year. When it is done it will fetch maybe $5k on todays market and I will have about $4k in it. If I keep it it should appreciate but the more I drive it the less its worth. I am now facing the possibility of being stuck with something that I can't drive much or modify for that matter. It is a fine example and something that I will really enjoy on a Sunday drive and can hopefully sell in 10 years and retire.(yeah right!)

Just some food for thought.