The anti GRM car

AE86 corolla, find one that is rust free, and restore it. Will be worth ridiculars amounts of money in another decade (already expensive enough as it it!)

M Coupe (S54? if possible)

E30 M3 as already stated

2002 Tii

Syclone/Typhoon

Anything cool and very limited volume will get you where you need to be. The 2002 turbo's are selling for $60k now.

mr2peak wrote: The Cosworth will never be worth hella money because of the EVO1,2 models and AMG models. Notice how many people in your age group have said E30 M3... Race cars with a history bring money.

BMW M3 had Evo models too, they also were in limited numbers and IIRC they were never directly sold to the US. The 2.3-16 does have a strong racing pedigree. In the end if I owned a 2.3-16 I wouldn’t use it as a investment piece but it is more likely to go up more than a similar vintage M3

Plymouth Prowler? It's overlooked nowadays, but I remembering it being pretty iconic in the mid-90's among other kids. Same with the Viper; the coupe will probably fare a lot better than the convertible, though. I bet the Countach will fare well down the line, although I wouldn't want to keep up with the maintenance. I can't think of any car that better represents the 80's unbridled excess. I wouldn't overlook the Esprit, either, especially the S4. That is a gorgeous car.

What about motorcycles? Will any bike from the last few decades transcend the Vincent Black Shadow for a production model?

If I had to choose any single car that fit the mold of the 60's muscle car, it would definitely be the Evo IX RS.

But to really maximize money, a collectible should answer to one of these questions: Was it the first? Was it the best?

I put my money in an ETF that's spread cross multiple petroleum companies so as the price of oil rises I make money for once. Seems a lot smarter than buying a car hoping it will be worth something far greater at a later date.

DeLorean. Seriously. Only 8000-odd made, stainless steel bodywork, lots of history associated with it, and those doors. Can be had for ten grand in half-decent driving condition.

The Esprit is also a good idea. Or the Elise. I like to think my Elan will go up in value (considering how cheap they are right now!) but I suspect it'll always be the bastard child.

I've officially added the DMC-12 and the Esprit to the list.

Sidenote: I will never be invested in petroleum like that - that industry is the nastiest dirtiest stinkiest price fixingist OPEC followist pile that ever was - no way a guy like me can guess who's gonna play golf with whom next week to make one stock skyrocket and the other freefall.

Any investment is a risk - I'd rather risk on a car which can be driven for fun and enjoyed.

Jay wrote: DeLorean. Seriously. Only 8000-odd made, stainless steel bodywork, lots of history associated with it, and those doors. Can be had for ten grand in half-decent driving condition.

That's a superb suggestion IMHO.

Jay wrote: The Esprit is also a good idea. Or the Elise. I like to think my Elan will go up in value (considering how cheap they are right now!) but I suspect it'll always be the bastard child.

Esprit definitely, especially in Turbo form. Elise? Not so sure. They are making an awful lot of S2s so that's right out. S1 or one of the S1 specials like 111S, Sport 135, possibly. If I had the OP's budget in GBP, I'd probably be hunting for an Exige S1 that needs a little improvement.

I bought my DMC-12 back in 1989. At that time (and many times since) the car magazines were all predicting huge increases in value, always in the next 5 years for some reason. It never happened. I bought the car because I really wanted it; the only reason you should ever buy a car. Put your money in your 401(k).

I have always felt that the most valuable collector car of the future will be the car you will be unwilling to sell. See the catch there?

I should mention that my hopes of the DMC-12 value increasing have gone up because I saw some 20 year olds drooling over a crappy one recently.
Lets hope we still have Gas available when they have the money to coax me into selling it.

Isnt there a company that bought up all the liquidated parts from DMC and is now refurbishing them? Wait I found it. You can buy new or used still. Might not be too rare now that you can still buy a new one. (Still neat though)

I am willing to sell anything non living in my house, and if you bring the right amount, I'll sell you my dogs. Everything has a price.

I asked everyone to opine, so I am not whining, but enough talk in the other direction. I have a 401K, I don't like putting in more than the match, my wife will be starting a Roth IRA before this happens. If you want to talk retirement strategies, PM me, I will be glad to. I value everyone's opinion, but for the remainder of the thread, let's not focus on if this is a good idea or a bad idea.

I really like the Esprit idea - they were neat cars. Maybe a better buy than a C4 ZR1.

Supercars right now are tanked. Just about any F-car should at least keep it's value. I bet a 308 would be pretty reasonable about now. If you can get one that's just like Tom Selleck's, that should be a good "investment." Keep in mind I know squat about F-cars.

Yeah, Deloreans are gonna go up in value "any minute now." We'll just have to wait that one out. You see the Jessie James episode with the Mini-gun? Best use of a Delorean I've ever seen, instantly increasing the value of the remaining ones.

As for the Loti: an early Elan, not the M100, but the original, should do well. The prices on those have gone up a lot. Esprit prices right now are way down. It would be a good time to buy one, but as for appreciation, hard to say. I'm gonna have to go with "not likely." We all talk about how it "might happen... someday. Any mintute now..." Buy one to enjoy. However, if you did want to buy one for appreciation value, an S4s would be the one to get. It's the ultimate 4 cyl Esprit and will be worth more. There are some others too, like the Sport 350, etc., in the V8's, or the X180R (4 cyl race version, very fast, very kick-ass), of which one comes up for sale every so often. There were only 10K Esprits made of all years. Original Elites are going for a lot and should keep on doing that. Sevens are a rather different beast, and it's my understanding that there are a lot of them out there claiming to be "original" that may be questionable. Anyone with a tubing cutter and a gas welder can duplicate one, and the ones out there after 50 years have had so much repair work done that it's possible the only original part is the VIN plate. A registry exists to ID real ones, or at least their VIN plates. Europas, well, if you start with a free one and put $30K into it, you wind up with a $12 car. That's another one that we're all waiting for the market to pop on, or at least go up a little. You buy a Europa because you have a hole in your head, err, I mean, because you really want one and nothing else will do.

Europas are perhaps the ugliest cars to claim "sporting" intentions. They may be purpose built, but man are they hideous. I would still drive one, though (if it was free forever).

MitchellC wrote: Europas are perhaps the ugliest cars to claim "sporting" intentions. They may be purpose built, but man are they hideous. I would still drive one, though (if it was free forever).

I was thinking about those, what with all the other Lotus talk. Pretty sure it'd be a bad investment, though. Saw a bunch on the road a year or so back- talk about something you don't see every day, 10 or so Europas, all shiny and running down the road together...

Cars for investment purposes:

Big 70s domestic land-yacht convertibles (Impala, Olds, etc)? Gas prices will continue to take these off the road, and eventually the only ones left will be the ones that REALLY only come out for a Sunday drive here and there- a Sunday drive that will cost you $100... Get a decent one (well within your budget) and spend a few dollars on a restoration, and park your nice driver in the (probably extended length) garage.

Maybe a first-gen Ford Lightning? Out of that deal, you'd get a truck and a hot rod at the same time. Could be a fun combo, but I don't imagine you'd want to risk a really nice paintjob piling it full of mulch, etc... Along the same lines, kind of, mid-60s pickup trucks can still be found for pretty cheap, in decent shape. They'll mostly already have been gone over once, at least, so you'd have to tread carefully, but that could be a fun hot rod/ toy car/ utility project vehicle. I want one, anyway, and those trucks are all at least 10 years my senior.

In general terms, though the "muscle car" thing is over, or about to be, I would still go looking for pre-70s-fuel-crunch era cars. In my opinion, that was the last golden age of the American auto industry, and there are some really pretty cars there (that aren't all necessarily Impalas, Challengers, Chargers, Chevelles, etc, but are still cool). Will you make money on them? Who knows- maybe, maybe not. I think if you play your cards right, though, you could at least get out what you have in them, mostly, and that's a lot more fun than a boring CD ladder or money market account returning .01%. If you have other financial stuff in place, it COULD be a decent move towards "diversifying your portfolio..."

On the other hand- no protection against inflation will be the killer in the investing in a car thing. If you buy a car for $5000, in twenty years you have to sell it for ~$11k to get the same value out (assuming annual 4% inflation, averaged and compounded). Unfortunately, if you pick wrong, you're much more likely to get your original purchase price back, sometimes less. Moral of story: find something YOU really like- you might be stuck with it.

Jake wrote: Saw a bunch on the road a year or so back- talk about something you don't see every day, 10 or so Europas, all shiny and running down the road together...

I believe that is statistically impossible.

Hey, here's a couple more that I think may appreciate: 2000 Camaro SS, and that last pre-new-body Mustang, but the Saleen supercharged 'vert version. I think both those cars, if put away for 10-20 years, are going to be worth something.

I'd look into some of the GM specialty cars of the early 2000 type. Namely the SLP F-bodies. Firehawks and SLP Camaro SS's are still worth a fair ammount, and if you get them in the right colors (Black Firehawk, Hugger Orange SS, and make sure they are and have been completely stock.) they could bring a fair amount of cash in the future.

And Like Doc Hess said, the early Terminators are gonna be worth some change too, but that is all based on the fact that they are stock, low mileage, and have the right color combination. Watch Barrett-Jackson, you can get two nearly identical 69 Camaro SS's, but one's got a nicer color combo (Black/Black, Blue/Black, Red/White) versus a worse color combo (Tan/White, Gold/Black, White/White) or whatever combo's are going well, and you can see ten's of thousands of dollars in price differences.

Keep in mind a lot of the car's that are being overlooked are still in the "used" catagory. Once they've been gone for 20-25 years, they go up in value simply based on supply.

I just skimmed this, so it may have been said, but

Big Block early to mid 70's Trans Ams

The collecter cars follow an age. The Ciddignton style stuff got big when the guys who were in High School at the dawn of hot rodding came of age and fincial ability to afford them. Then came to 50's era stuff, Bel Airs, T-Birds etc. Then the early muscle cars finally the Hemi stuff. All of it following a curve of age.

The big block GM stuff hasstarted to peak and you are seeing the 70's cars increase in both popularity and value. The Burn Notice Charger for example. 5 years ago you couldn't give one away, now they are starting to go for a few grand.

Meanwhile, all those kids that were 15 in 1975 have entered their late 40's. In 1975, only one company was still making big block cars, and as slow as it may be now, at the time, it was the only muscle car. In a few years the demographic for these cars will be in their 50's and the ones with money are going to want want the cars they couldn't afford in high school...just like every other car collector that goes to Barrett Jackson.

I think that orphaned cars, low production runs, and cars that got abused are the best options. Imagine trying to find a stock, low mileage, rust-free, unmodified DSM turbo, Supra, Celica All-Trac, Colt Turbo, CRX Si, etc. Everyone loved them new, but low cost meant that everyone abused and modified them and then threw them away. Someday, people will want them new again and they will be hard to find.

As for low production, you can argue the value of special edition cars, but it seems to be a crapshoot which will be valuable later. Look at the first ZR-1 Corvettes. Pretty low volume, but I don't think they have held value as much as some investors imagined. Good for us, bad for making money.

Orphaned and oddball cars sometimes have a value, but will a Renault GTA be worth something someday? Dunno. How about a Reatta? Doubtful. Perhaps the Allante with the Northstar?

Twin Turbo Supra will go up. I dunno what is the best sub-model there, but pick the right one and I think that will go up, especially stock. The one with the big wing. Original motor, of course. Toyota can tell you what the motor number was that came in that car. All dealers have access to that database. Even going back to MK1 MR2's.

Whatever car you choose, make sure it's a very-low-mile and totally-stock car, with absolutely zero rust, repairs or modifications. And make sure it stays in that condition.

I knew a guy who bought a Grand Prix 2+2 Aero Coupe in the mid '80's. He drove the crap out of that car, and didn't take care of it. I'm sure it is now long-recycled into a new Honda. That car, if kept in as-new condition, would be double it's original value (even more if it were a Monte Carlo SS Aero Coupe).

My father has a few antique vehicles. One is a restored '30 Chevy Sedan Deluxe, another is an early '47 Chevy 1 Ton Panel Truck, that is very original. The truck is worth much more than the car, due to its rarity and unrestored condition. Finding a buyer for either would be difficult now, though, which ultimately lowers the value of the vehicles.

I, too, was thinking GNX

Kramer wrote: Whatever car you choose, make sure it's a very-low-mile and totally-stock car, with absolutely zero rust, repairs or modifications. And make sure it stays in that condition.

Most important point made in this thread IMHO.

Around eight or ten years ago, a company was set up to take retired CJ-6 aircraft (Russian designed / Chinese Air force trainers) and zero time them which entails stripping them down to individual parts and replacing anything that doesn’t meet factory new specifications. The work was down at Chinese military facilities where they had tremendous experience with the aircraft and then crated up and shipped to Port of Long Beach in CA. I believe the price was around 42K and then you’d spend around 6K more to have the wings reattached and the airworthiness certificate signed off by an A&P. So, 47K for a super nice, basically brand new, two seat high performance aircraft. Oh, and you could buy as many zero timed motors for 12K as you’d like so you’d never need to worry about getting the engine rebuilt.

I don’t know what they’re going for today but I’m pretty sure they’ve appreciated enough to cover all costs of ownership and then some.

Didn't Uncle Bill outlaw foreign military aircraft? Or does this not count, or does shipping it in piece by piece get around that? My classmates bought a MIG21 and a SU-something or other trainer and told me that after they got theirs, Uncle Bill declared all further imports to be "implements of war" and thus banned from importation, like machine guns or cannons.

That's cool though.

Hi Dr. Hess,

I haven’t seen the official list, but from personal observation, I know that up to early jets (Red Bull – Mig 15 for example) are permissible but with a restriction for “demonstration purposes only” which means you have to be flying to, during, or from some sort of air show…I imagine this rule gets wildly stretched 

Also, all weapons need to be rendered “unable to be restored to operational condition” and the ejection seat needs to be removed…this is casually referred to as the “hey buddy, don’t even think about chucking that thing over the LA basin” rule.