Disposable cars are liberating. Especially in winters in those areas that get snow/ice and where roads get salted. I drove (very) cheap cars for years with no worries about what would happen if I went off in bad weather (assuming of course no one was hurt).
I don't know if I would like to own some pricey car -think Ferrari or GT40- though even in nice weather for the opposite reason.
Tom_Spangler wrote:Tyler H wrote: I'm still in disbelief that used cars cost the same (or more) in the rust belt as they do in the South. I still think there is a blue collar business model to be had by opening a <$5k used car lot somewhere in the North, featuring only rust-free cars ferried up from Atlanta.You aren't the first to think of this. I've considered it as a retirement gig.
Your best bet would be to organize car buying tours. Fill a bus full of people who want to go to Atlanta (or wherever you go), party for a week-end and either drive their cars home or ride the bus if they did not score. You should be well-up on the legal issues of the buyer/seller needs so as to facilitate tittle transfer as a value added feature.
You will know you are doing this right when you start to notice that some people are not going for the car hunting
Adrian_Thompson wrote:Tyler H wrote: I'm still in disbelief that used cars cost the same (or more) in the rust belt as they do in the South. I still think there is a blue collar business model to be had by opening a <$5k used car lot somewhere in the North, featuring only rust-free cars ferried up from Atlanta.It makes total sense. Think about it. If cars are sold at basically the same rate per capita in the North and South, the need for used cars is about the same. But as they deteriorate faster in the North it affects the supply side of the supply and demand curve, so it pushes the price higher for deteriorated cars than in the south.
Yeah, but $20 will get you a Megabus ticket to Atlanta. It's the mentality I don't get. Why buy a rusty car when you can spend a weekend and get a spotless one?
Frankly, part of my problem is I simply don't have time for cars that I once did. So the car has to be able to deal with being somewhat beaten and neglected. My life is non-stop on the go, I need a car that doesn't require much of my time.
re: the conversation about cars up north vs. south. One nice thing about the north is that prices often plummet in the winter, as it's too damn cold to go to car dealers and shop, especially for convertibles. Can pick them up for a ridiculous bargain and ship them far, far cheaper than you'd pay at a dealer here in Atlanta. Trust me...I'm doing this as we speak.
Tyler H wrote:Adrian_Thompson wrote:Yeah, but $20 will get you a Megabus ticket to Atlanta. It's the mentality I don't get. Why buy a rusty car when you can spend a weekend and get a spotless one?Tyler H wrote: I'm still in disbelief that used cars cost the same (or more) in the rust belt as they do in the South. I still think there is a blue collar business model to be had by opening a <$5k used car lot somewhere in the North, featuring only rust-free cars ferried up from Atlanta.It makes total sense. Think about it. If cars are sold at basically the same rate per capita in the North and South, the need for used cars is about the same. But as they deteriorate faster in the North it affects the supply side of the supply and demand curve, so it pushes the price higher for deteriorated cars than in the south.
You're still investing a lot of time and expense (hotels, fuel for the trip home, etc) to buy a cheap car sight-unseen, probably from some random Craigslister. I seriously considered it when shopping for my kids' cars, but at the end of the day, I decided to be patient and picky until I found decent examples locally. There are just too many unknowns, especially with beaters, and especially when I have to hope the thing will get me home from 1000 miles away.
Tyler H wrote: Yeah, but $20 will get you a Megabus ticket to Atlanta. It's the mentality I don't get. Why buy a rusty car when you can spend a weekend and get a spotless one?
I agree to a point. If shopping for an appliance though I keep to a limited radius from home as supply is plentiful. Also the $ cost of going to Atlanta for a car is negligible compared to the time cost, which is way way more. I would honestly pay $500 for the convenience of not having to go to Atlanta for an appliance, but that’s easy to say when you either get new cars or old toys. Reality may sway me if it came to that.
For a toy, all bets are off. One day I'll pick up a toy in SoCal and drive it back for pleasure.
Tyler H wrote:Adrian_Thompson wrote:Yeah, but $20 will get you a Megabus ticket to Atlanta. It's the mentality I don't get. Why buy a rusty car when you can spend a weekend and get a spotless one?Tyler H wrote: I'm still in disbelief that used cars cost the same (or more) in the rust belt as they do in the South. I still think there is a blue collar business model to be had by opening a <$5k used car lot somewhere in the North, featuring only rust-free cars ferried up from Atlanta.It makes total sense. Think about it. If cars are sold at basically the same rate per capita in the North and South, the need for used cars is about the same. But as they deteriorate faster in the North it affects the supply side of the supply and demand curve, so it pushes the price higher for deteriorated cars than in the south.
As Adrian said it depends on what it's for. Atlanta is a half day trip from up here just for something that's not real rusty but I'm going to do just basic maintenance on until it rots out. It's a time/value proposition at that point.
For something I'm going to restore or keep for a while, well there's a reason I forked out half the purchase price of a recent purchase to have the J-Tin shipped from SoCal to Pennsylvania.
I like the disposable beaters. The right crapcan 4 cylinder/5speed combo can be a lot of fun. Also, when I clipped a deer with my Escort I laughed. When the same happened to the nice BMW 318ti I felt sick to my stomach.
Adrian_Thompson wrote:Tyler H wrote: Yeah, but $20 will get you a Megabus ticket to Atlanta. It's the mentality I don't get. Why buy a rusty car when you can spend a weekend and get a spotless one?I agree to a point. If shopping for an appliance though I keep to a limited radius from home as supply is plentiful. Also the $ cost of going to Atlanta for a car is negligible compared to the time cost, which is way way more. I would honestly pay $500 for the convenience of not having to go to Atlanta for an appliance, but that’s easy to say when you either get new cars or old toys. Reality may sway me if it came to that. For a toy, all bets are off. One day I'll pick up a toy in SoCal and drive it back for pleasure.
The convenience is exactly right. The car I'm buying now is in Illinois, which is 650 miles from Atlanta. Yeah, I could fly out there and drive it home, but I don't have the time. The couple hundred bucks extra it will cost me to ship it, but save about 18 hours of my time (or more), is money well spent.
ssswitch wrote: I don't have nice cars anymore, I have fully subscribed to the RAIV (Redundant Array of Inexpensive Vehicles) methodology of car reliability.
Ahhh yes, otherwise known as the old Forbes theory of economic vehicle ownership. Fleet Of Redundant Beeaters
In reply to BlueInGreen44:
It's also fun to see how far or high they can jump.
Tyler H wrote:Adrian_Thompson wrote:Yeah, but $20 will get you a Megabus ticket to Atlanta. It's the mentality I don't get. Why buy a rusty car when you can spend a weekend and get a spotless one?Tyler H wrote: I'm still in disbelief that used cars cost the same (or more) in the rust belt as they do in the South. I still think there is a blue collar business model to be had by opening a <$5k used car lot somewhere in the North, featuring only rust-free cars ferried up from Atlanta.It makes total sense. Think about it. If cars are sold at basically the same rate per capita in the North and South, the need for used cars is about the same. But as they deteriorate faster in the North it affects the supply side of the supply and demand curve, so it pushes the price higher for deteriorated cars than in the south.
I considered a (insert travel method here) and drive for my last car purchase.
I was looking at bringing the wife and kids with me for a long drive home or leaving wife at home alone with the kids.
So I bought locally.
BlueInGreen44 wrote: I like the disposable beaters. The right crapcan 4 cylinder/5speed combo can be a lot of fun. Also, when I clipped a deer with my Escort I laughed. When the same happened to the nice BMW 318ti I felt sick to my stomach.
The funny thing about that is outside of here and a couple of Bimmer fan sites, a 318ti is considered a disposable beater by 99% of the population. Don't get me wrong, I love them. My favorite E36 shape. Remember the one one of the Euro tuning firms put an M70 V12 in?
You guys have made my morning hugely enjoyable with your range of opinions. I kind of wish I could let go like Huckleberry and a few others, but I still like cars that are special to me and I can't quite shake that. Of course the longevity of beaters down here means that I often fall for cars I'm not supposed to and then I want to make them nice and then I need a beater.
Probably the closest I've come to a balance was my Mazda2. It was special because I bought it new and it was truly fun. If was my gateway back into autocprss after a kid induced sabbatical. At the same time, it was an appliance so I was never afraid of just using it. No matter what happened, when I was done it was still going to be a very common car. Even with that, I always had my truck which has been my backup 'beater' and keeping that has given me the freedom to do stupid things like buy the R63.
Not just winter beaters, but autocross beaters and parts delivery vehicles. I was getting onto an NYC bridge one day and some individual in a 3 pointed star decided to try to cut me off. Took one look at the stripes, decals and general condition and decided to go after easier prey. Very liberating to drive a running vehicle that is worth less than most people's rims.
Adrian_Thompson wrote:Tyler H wrote: Yeah, but $20 will get you a Megabus ticket to Atlanta. It's the mentality I don't get. Why buy a rusty car when you can spend a weekend and get a spotless one?I agree to a point. If shopping for an appliance though I keep to a limited radius from home as supply is plentiful. Also the $ cost of going to Atlanta for a car is negligible compared to the time cost, which is way way more. I would honestly pay $500 for the convenience of not having to go to Atlanta for an appliance, but that’s easy to say when you either get new cars or old toys. Reality may sway me if it came to that. For a toy, all bets are off. One day I'll pick up a toy in SoCal and drive it back for pleasure.
Agree with you on the Pacific Coast Hwy bucket list. Regarding rust -- I personally can't patch rust to pass inspection fast enough to get it done in a weekend, so I call it even.
There is something liberating about driving an appliance you don't give a berkeley about. Though not exactly a "beater," I drive a Toyota Highlander to work and back (40+ miles in soul-sucking Houston traffic) and couldn't care less about the odd scratch, windshield chip, etc. As a car guy I find the lousy handling, refrigerator styling, soccer mom image, and mediocre performance all very disappointing, but, heck, it isn't like I'm canyon surfing with the damned thing. I've got other vehicles for fun that live in the garage most of the time.
On the other hand, my wife wrapped her Mercedes E350 with 3M film and agonizes over curb rash on the rims, won't go through an auto wash (and guess who has to hand wash it whenever it has the slightest blemish) and generally has a hissy fit every time a bug hits it. Ain't nobody got time for that kind of stress.
I love having a beater around. It is indeed liberating and I delight in nosing shopping carts out of the way from time to time and generally not caring about dings...or potholes...or rallycross...or salt...or locking the doors.
This started when I was just "in college" or "poor" and every car was a beater. Then we had 'OK' cars for a while that were worth taking care of and depressing to see waste away from rust. Now this winter is the first time I truly have a beater 'for winter' while the 'really nice' car (OK so in my world that's anything worth more than $3k) is in storage and the 'normal daily driver' stays parked for 6 days a week unless something breaks on the beater. It's REALLY fun. Plus being covered in salt disguises all the dents.
My love for the crapcan daily driver ('94 2wd Ranger at the moment) is also enabled by my short drive to work. If I had to commute an hour to the city and back every day I'd be wanting something more reliable and comfy.
My daily drivers have mostly been beaters and mostly been big, lifted, ugly 4x4's.
When your daily driver is a rock-crawling trail truck with mud tires, you are an automotive enthusiast and that fact is obvious even though or maybe because your vehicle has cut fenders, riveted-on fender patches and welded steering box braces made with angle iron.
You wear the scratches and dents as evidence of your automotive hobby, not despite it.
In reply to mazdeuce:
I live in Massachusetts and I say 'yes' to everything mazdeuce said about winter beaters. I have an old-style 2005 VW Jetta sedan as my sacrificial salt car. Driving something in the crappy weather and truly not giving a f* #%!k about the salt I hear splashing up on the underbody can be liberating.
I too spent my driving youth in Michigan, We would bu as many of the beaters when they came for sale in the spring, Usually no more than 200 dollars. I had a bunch of property so it was not uncommon to have 10 cars around. Impromptu demo derbys happened pretty regular, Vehicle Frankenstein was a regular past time too. Just had to save one for the following winter.
The bodys were not the only casualty in the cold weather areas, Engines take a beating from the oil being so cold at start up they things wear at an alarming rate. Brake likes would pop, Gas tanks rust through and the straps/hangers would give way to the rust demons and fall out when you hit a pothole. I have had oil pans rust out too and drop all the oil on the road.
Things like spring hangers were quick to go, I have had driveshafts break too, usually when jumping some sweet railroad tracks.
I wouldnt give all that up for anything! Taught many creative ways to fix things.
The first three cars I bought came straight home and we "fixed" the floors with roof flashing and sheet metal screws. I miss proper beaters but I don't miss working on rusty crap.
This is why I have this! 03 Golf with what some like to call the 2.slow. Without a doubt the most reliable engine/trans combination available in 03 in a VW. VW did a really good job matching the gearbox to the paltry 115 Hp. I used to drive a WRX! The fuel economy and the extra cost of premium was too much for the budget.
I bought it 3.5 years ago for $2K and put $300 in parts and it passed the safety inspection. It only had 131k kms (about 80k miles) on it. All 4 of us get in it and drive to our favourite ski hill an hour away, while the fancy AWD Explorer sits in the driveway.
Kids scratch it with their bikes, oh well. . . . .
Salt and sand get it rusting, oh well . . . . . . .
No collision coverage and somebody hits it, oh well. . . . . .
If something happens to it, oh well . . . . . .
I will just get another one!
All my cars are beaters. Even the "nice" ones. Makes life easy.
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