The continuing Cash for Clunkers saga...

I have a friend that works at a Toyota dealership and he told me they are moving a lot of cars inder the CFC program. They sold 18 cars on Monday and 24 cars on Tuesday of this week. Numbers that might take all month to do other times. The interesting thing are the cars being turned in under the program. He called me and said they have about 30 cars out back all waiting to have the motors destoyed. Several late 90s Jeep Cherokees and Grand Cherokees, a 2002 Cadillac Sedan Deville just came in, mostly American sedans and trucks/SUVs. He went on to say that most were in fairly good shape, especially one of the Cherokees. The funny thing is most are being trade in for trucks and SUVs such as Tundras, Siennas and RAV 4s. Isn't that the opposite of the programs intention?

One other thing.... there is a list of cars that are eligible for the CFC program with news cars being added everyday. He said the list was just updated today with a 2004 Mazda RX8 being added. Huh?? Am I missing something here? I guess it's based purely on mileage but that is weird.

Don't they have to buy a vehicle that gets better mileage than the one they traded in ?

When you think about it, it's really just a guaranteed minimum trade-in allowance for a used car that meets a fairly wide set of specs.

I dunno my 2007 RAV4 gets 25-27mpg mixed.. and has seen 32 on the highway.. Thats better mileage than a malibu that I had as a rental.

I work for a chemical company and our phones are going nuts with dealers looking for sodium silicate. Think of it as a liquid form of glass. Apparently the dealers are supposed to drain the oil, pour in the sodium silicate and run the engines till they seize. Probably a real waste in some cases.

Gonzo_Bmod wrote: I work for a chemical company and our phones are going nuts with dealers looking for sodium silicate. Think of it as a liquid form of glass. Apparently the dealers are supposed to drain the oil, pour in the sodium silicate and run the engines till they seize. Probably a real waste in some cases.

Yes, that's exactly right. Apparently, the sodium silicate is poured into the engine and the motor is run at 2000 rpm until it seizes. Following that they have to tag the engine saying that it no longer works. Nobody is really sure what happens after that so the mechanics are holding off on performing this procedure. Must be interesting to run 30+ motors until they seize.

They should just have a huge demolition derby and destroy all the cars that way!

Feedyurhed wrote: ... 2004 Mazda RX8 being added. Huh?? Am I missing something here? I guess it's based purely on mileage but that is weird.

According to www.fueleconomy.gov a 2004 RX8 only gets 18 mpg so yes, in theory, it could be "clunkered." Personally, i would think it would have a real world higher value in parts consider that the car has to run and be titled/insured for the past year.

What this really raises is an interesting idea.
Can the dealers strip the cars?

The cars have to be driven in and then engine destroyed but who says it has to have all it body panels or tail lights when turned into the gov't?
Could it have 4 spare tires?
No interior or taken off trim pieces?

Report of the program ending.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090730/ap_on_go_ot/us_cash_for_clunkers

I suspect that the "back end" of the program is not really working.
Does anyone know anyone who has really seen the money?
Does the consumer wait for the money or does the dealership wait for the money?

jrw1621 wrote:

Feedyurhed wrote: ... 2004 Mazda RX8 being added. Huh?? Am I missing something here? I guess it's based purely on mileage but that is weird.

According to www.fueleconomy.gov a 2004 RX8 only gets 18 mpg so yes, in theory, it could be "clunkered." Personally, i would think it would have a real world higher value in parts consider that the car has to run and be titled/insured for the past year. What this really raises is an interesting idea. Can the dealers strip the cars? The cars have to be driven in and then engine destroyed but who says it has to have all it body panels or tail lights? Could it have 4 spare tires? Not interior or taken off trim pieces?

I have another friend who bought a new Chevy pick up under the CFC program by turning in an old 70s Ford F150 pick up. The salesman told him to take what ever he wanted off of it because it was going to be destroyed anyway. So he swapped out the wheels/tires, took off the cap, took out the radio etc. and generally took other useable parts. Weird program..... and I think you will see a lot more of that going on too. If it's just to get the old gas guzzlers off the road, why not use the good parts?

Here's a little more info on the program:

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/1032/Cash-for-Clunkers-Eligible-New-Trucks-and-SUVs-by-Make-and-Model

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/1029/Meltdown-101-The-Cash-for-Clunkers-Program

From what I read of the law I think someone along the line is allowed to sell parts that aren't engines off the cars, but can't keep the money. Not sure who that is or where the money goes.

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_content_landing_pages/1032/Cash-for-Clunkers-Eligible-New-Trucks-and-SUVs-by-Make-and-Model

Proven in the list above, I saw this coming.
The Chevy HHR and PT Cruiser are classed as trucks and therefore only has to get 5 mpg higher than the trade in to get full $4,500 credit.
Oddly, the Jeep Compass/Patriot are trucks and the Dodge Caliber (same vehicle) is a car and both are rated at 25 mpg, so....

If you have a 18mpg old car and you buy a Caliber at 25 mpg, you will get 7 mpg more and be eligable for $3,500 since 10 mpg is needed for the max pay-out on a car purchase.

If you by the Jeep version your 7 mpg will be better than the 5 mpg needed to get max payout on a truck purchase. You get the full $4,500 on the Jeep purchase (same vehicle)

So how much pollution will get spewed running all these engines at 2000 rpm until they seize? How much fuel will be wasted?

This administration has the dumbest ideas I've ever come across...

ddavidv wrote: So how much pollution will get spewed running all these engines at 2000 rpm until they seize? How much fuel will be wasted? This administration has the dumbest ideas I've ever come across...

Or shredding/ melting/ shipping and recasting: stamping all that steel into new cars.

We have a local dealer with a late 90's Corolla raised on a fork lift with " CASH FOR CLUNKERS" spray painted all over it. Looks fine other than that, probably came from an auction.

Gee. Nothing like destroying a 40mpg car to save the environment and our economy.

the salvage certification form is here....

pdf doc here

i can see a bunch of different interpretations from it, but it seems to me, that as long as the car engine is glassed and the main structure is crushed or shredded, everything else is up for grabs

Program lasted a whole week before it ran out of money. How long to we get soaked for another billion to pay for another week?

My cynical side says...

Dealerships will have screwed up enough deals or will have to wait too long to get their money from an over burdened gov't rebate system and we will see an increase of failed dealerships.

Look how well the gov't did with the $40 digital TV voucher?

On that note, we should let these same people run our healthcare.

it just kills me to see this crap.. expecialy if they are killing off my jeeps.. heaven forbid it doesn't get great milage but a cherroke will run damn near for ever and are a easy vehical to work on and maintain. but ohwell

I thought you could only buy American made cars?

Do the cars you buy have to be brand new, or can you get a used car from a dealer?

$4500 is 3-4 times more than what my old Jeep Cherokee is worth, if I can use that money to buy a used $10k 4runner from a dealer I'd be all over it...

Here's more info:

http://content.usatoday.com/communities/driveon/post/2009/07/68495326/1

http://www.nhtsa.gov/staticfiles/DOT/NHTSA/Rulemaking/Rules/Associated%20Files/CARS_FR.pdf

Looks like they are going to suspend the program ....

Personally I would rather my tax dollars were spent taking dodge intrepids and ford explorers of the roads than funding some war somewhere. Think of it as highway beautification

From Steven Cole Smith, friend and Challenge judge:

http://www.orlandosentinel.com/business/orl-bk-cash-for-clunkers-suspended-073009,0,2694104.story

I just see the industry (and our govt) digging a deeper hole for themselves. There were no consumers before, and now that this tasty carrot (which has been effective at rooting out the last of the buyers) is gone, what will we have left?

Let's just cut to the chase and have the govt print enough money to buy each of us a new car. I'll take a Pontiac G8 GT....uh....