The F150 EV Lightning thread

Ford is set ot unveil their fully electric truck tonight, and figured we might as well have a place to discuss it since it's a pretty big step for the highest selling vehicle in the US.

It was visible in the background during the President's speech yesterday, and hallelujah it looks like a pretty standard new truck:

An engineer was overheard telling some VIPs that the battery weighs around 1800lbs, so we might be talking about a truck with decent range or the ability to do actual work (at least for a little while).

Anyway, I'm looking forward to some more details coming out as I think this thing is pretty important in the grand scheme of things. Ford hinted in the past that they were expecting a lot of fleet sales of this thing, so it may eventually end up in configurations other than the "cowboy Cadillacs" that are so common now which would be cool.

I'm excited to see how this version  sells and if it cannabalizes other F150 configurations or grows market share for Ford.  With Rivian closer to launch and electric versions of GMs trucks and SUVs coming it should be interesting to watch.  

I'll be very interested in it's capabilities.  Range, towing capacity, range while towing, how does cold affect that range, etc....  I assume it's gonna have all the cool high tech functions like adaptive cruise control, lane keeping assist, and all the like.  

I'm looking forward to seeing more.  I'm also happy they made it look "normal".

That roller-skate is so clean and simple.  I wonder what's under the hood now.  Cargo space?  Hot tub?

Body on frame translates so nicely to a skateboard :)

If the battery weighs 1800 lbs, it's a big 'un. The battery in the Model 3 apparently clocks in at 1060 lbs and that's either 75 or 82 KWh (not sure which one that weight is for). It's possible that Ford and Tesla are including different components in their weights such as inverters and cooling, but just looking at the size of it there's a lot of capacity there. That means it can deliver a lot of torque at once and has good range. But that's going to mean cost. Batteries are awkward that way.

The EV will suffer in direct comparison to the wide range of ICE options on some metrics. Range while towing, for example, is likely to be met with some derision. A bigger problem for long-distance towing is recharging. Not the whole "but I can ram 30 gallons into a gas truck in 27 seconds!" crap, but the fact that chargers are almost always a pull-in and not a pull-through.  Makes it difficult to charge when you're hooked to a trailer. This is not a difficult problem to solve from a technology standpoint but it is a PITA because it means that very little of the existing infrastructure is not ready for Lightnings with boats on the back. You can't just run an extension cord on a fast charger, those cables are water-cooled.

But the EV will do better in other metrics, which is why Ford will offer both. They'll be well-suited to trucks that spend their days running around town from job to job doing delivery or visiting various jobsites. Even if you put 200 miles on your truck every day (that's 52k/year if you work every weekday), you'll be able to do it without having to charge during the day. Maintenance costs should be down, running costs will definitely be down.

And of course, there are those who use trucks like cars. This will work like a car :)

This is an important vehicle. I hope it's a success. It sure seems like Ford is taking is seriously.

In reply to TVR Scott :

The front end will have a fully functional storage "frunk" area as I've been working on that design a bit in polymer.  Should be a very usable space given the dimensions.

Great!

I may want this. A pickup is great in terms of usability at the drop of a hat, but always terrible in terms of cost per mile. This should handily fix that problem.

Also it doesn't look like it's trying so hard to be unique. It's just a good looking truck.

I don't think these qill quickly take over the "I tow 750 miles every other weekend" crowd, but the fleets that send out hundreds of guys to and from constructions sites in town will switch immediately. 

84FSP said:

In reply to TVR Scott :

The front end will have a fully functional storage "frunk" area as I've been working on that design a bit in polymer.  Should be a very usable space given the dimensions.

Oh that's a really cool feature on a truck.

TVR Scott said:

I'm looking forward to seeing more.  I'm also happy they made it look "normal".

That roller-skate is so clean and simple.  I wonder what's under the hood now.  Cargo space?  Hot tub?

If you compare the grille, headlights and bumper cover of the EV to the ICE truck next to it there are some small differences. The 'grille' on the EV has a completely vertical edge where it meets the headlight. A lot like the edge between bedsides and a tailgate... I've heard some speculation that it could have a "front gate" or "nose gate" that folds down to give access to the "frunk". I think that could be pretty cool/useful.

Keith Tanner said:

A bigger problem for long-distance towing is recharging. Not the whole "but I can ram 30 gallons into a gas truck in 27 seconds!" crap, but the fact that chargers are almost always a pull-in and not a pull-through.  Makes it difficult to charge when you're hooked to a trailer. This is not a difficult problem to solve from a technology standpoint but it is a PITA because it means that very little of the existing infrastructure is not ready for Lightnings with boats on the back. You can't just run an extension cord on a fast charger, those cables are water-cooled.

Also for the types of towing that people on this board often do, you really want charging infrastructure at the track.

What is the best charging miles per minute with the chargers that are out there now ?

Do you think they will build a Hybrid F150 ?

84FSP said:

In reply to TVR Scott :

The front end will have a fully functional storage "frunk" area as I've been working on that design a bit in polymer.  Should be a very usable space given the dimensions.

Can you share with me who's going to be making those parts?   PM if you can.  

84FSP said:

In reply to TVR Scott :

The front end will have a fully functional storage "frunk" area as I've been working on that design a bit in polymer.  Should be a very usable space given the dimensions.

They need to make the grill open up like a tail gate. That way you don't have to kill yourself to load the frunk.

STM317 said:

TVR Scott said:

I'm looking forward to seeing more.  I'm also happy they made it look "normal".

That roller-skate is so clean and simple.  I wonder what's under the hood now.  Cargo space?  Hot tub?

If you compare the grille, headlights and bumper cover of the EV to the ICE truck next to it there are some small differences. The 'grille' on the EV has a completely vertical edge where it meets the headlight. A lot like the edge between bedsides and a tailgate... I've heard some speculation that it could have a "front gate" or "nose gate" that folds down to give access to the "frunk". I think that could be pretty cool/useful.

Beat me to it.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

I agree that this will appeal to the people who use a truck like a car everyday but I'm not convinced for job site / construction types....Biggest factors being cost and abuse. Ford still produces bare bones trucks specifically for this market. There's the 45-50K truck for fleets and the 80K+ truck for consumers.

Edit: above I'm thinking 3/4 and 1 tons for those prices

A front tailgate would be super cool.  Haven't seen it in any of the designs I have seen thus far but dig the idea.  

I enjoy that they have a sign saying "a future made in america" when the F150 just fell off the the top ten american made index, and Hondas got like 3 up there. 

I put this in the Hummer category. Good but not that interested, mainly cause Im not a ford fan. I am very interested in the Rivian and the cyber truck if it doesnt end up being stupid ugly

I'm more convinced about the work trucks than the toy trucks, honestly. Work trucks are far less likely to be asked to tow a boat across the country. Work trucks are more consistent (yes, I know there are exceptions) and a business is more likely to look at total cost of ownership than an individual. It's fairly clear that TCO is lower for EVs than ICE vehicles when maintenance is taken into account.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

And that may be the case. I'm just guessing that this going to be over double a bare bone work truck cost and if I owned a multi vehicle company do I really want to spend that much money knowing how the workers treat my other vehicles....

Granted this depends on the company and it's employees but most all "work trucks" I've seen are beat. Only nice ones/taken care of is the boss's.

They'll get beaten up no matter what, so why not have your workers beat up the one that costs you less overall? It's not all about the up-front price. That's consumer thinking. If a business isn't looking at TCO they're not a very good business.

I am making the assumption that the Lightning will be similar to passenger cars in terms of relative price for capability. Even if there is an ICE truck that is half the price of the Lightning, is it an equivalent truck in terms of being able to do the necessary work? That will depend on the work, which is why the EV will not be the perfect choice for all applications. But it will be a good choice for some.

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

Keith Tanner said:

A bigger problem for long-distance towing is recharging. Not the whole "but I can ram 30 gallons into a gas truck in 27 seconds!" crap, but the fact that chargers are almost always a pull-in and not a pull-through.  Makes it difficult to charge when you're hooked to a trailer. This is not a difficult problem to solve from a technology standpoint but it is a PITA because it means that very little of the existing infrastructure is not ready for Lightnings with boats on the back. You can't just run an extension cord on a fast charger, those cables are water-cooled.

Also for the types of towing that people on this board often do, you really want charging infrastructure at the track.

That's an easier problem to fix than trying to sort out the charging infrastructure across the US. Far fewer tracks :)

Towing range is going to be crap, but if you've ever towed with an ICE f150 you know the range for that is crap too, it just only takes 2 minutes (and an eye watering amount of money) to refill the tank. But if you can stand the long recharge breaks, the cost savings would be huge. Probably tow/haul capacities will be down too due to the extra battery weight. I really like the front trunk. It's a little comical to picture actually using it but it would be super useful.

Keith Tanner said:

codrus (Forum Supporter) said:

Keith Tanner said:

A bigger problem for long-distance towing is recharging. Not the whole "but I can ram 30 gallons into a gas truck in 27 seconds!" crap, but the fact that chargers are almost always a pull-in and not a pull-through.  Makes it difficult to charge when you're hooked to a trailer. This is not a difficult problem to solve from a technology standpoint but it is a PITA because it means that very little of the existing infrastructure is not ready for Lightnings with boats on the back. You can't just run an extension cord on a fast charger, those cables are water-cooled.

Also for the types of towing that people on this board often do, you really want charging infrastructure at the track.

That's an easier problem to fix than trying to sort out the charging infrastructure across the US. Far fewer tracks :)

Tracks should already be thinking about this with the number of Tesla's out there and how remote they can be. Little old Toronto Motorsports Park has a free Level 2 charger available for spectators, drag racers and anyone using the road course. I'm guessing the free part will go away when tow vehicles start plugging in!

I'm not enthusiastic about this for towing, but as a SWAG the vast majority of commercially owned half-ton pickups don't tow, or travel out of city, and if they do tow, they're towing a trailer covered in lawnmowers and weedwhackers.

I would also SWAG that the majority of privately owned pickups could be replaced with a Versa and the owner would see no functional difference.

I'm with Keith, this looks pretty rad, and would make a ton of sense from a cost over lifespan basis.

About ten years ago, the company I worked for was gearing up to do natural gas conversions for fleets.  $10-12k to convert an existing gasoline fed pickup to CNG, which would reduce engine maintenance costs and allow the fleet owners to refill at home base.  Tank took up about 3' of the front of the bed's useful depth for 16 gallons gasoline equivalent. 

That didn't pan out for various reasons.  But if this costs $15k more than the same spec F150, and offers full use of the bed AND a front trunk, AND eliminates 95% of drivetrain maintenance costs, AND allows recharging at home base when everyone's at home...  Say hello to a new fleet darling, and preorders for a van version.

Keith Tanner said:

I'm more convinced about the work trucks than the toy trucks, honestly. Work trucks are far less likely to be asked to tow a boat across the country. Work trucks are more consistent (yes, I know there are exceptions) and a business is more likely to look at total cost of ownership than an individual. It's fairly clear that TCO is lower for EVs than ICE vehicles when maintenance is taken into account.

I look at all the contractors, lawn care companies, etc. that I see driving around in pickups; they all have a relatively short daily route that's pretty consistent from day to day, and their loads aren't all that heavy.  An electric F-150 would work great for them.