The F150 EV Lightning thread

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Damn, you're right. Good catch there

In reply to STM317 :

Maybe it's for a F250 and F350 with a 250 KWh battery so you can use two chargers at once :)

In reply to Keith Tanner :

2 separate batteries, just like old trucks could have two separate fuel tanks. Hook up to two chargers and charge in half the time?

In reply to STM317 :

Exactly!

In reply to Keith Tanner :

They said something about "dual on board chargers" for the extended battery version so that it can charge even faster. They don't explain if that means you can have two fast chargers hooked up at once, or a fast charger and a 120v charger or what. If it means two fast chargers at once, I can see f150s pissing off other ev owners if they're tieing up two chargers at a rest stop.

Keith Tanner said:

It looks to me that Ford has taken a good shot at extrapolating this with the Lightning. The power outlets in the frunk and the general usefulness of the frunk itself, the ability to backfeed into the house (let's hope everyone updates their house wiring before using this) like a computer battery backup, the load measurement on the axles - I like it. This is what happens when one of the major automakers takes a serious shot at electrifying their biggest seller instead of just building compliance cars.

 

Exactly.

Pardon my comparison here because I know we all have our biases. You are not going to Out-Tesla Tesla. This seems like function was drilled in over and over. If those pictures are any indication of reality, I can see contractors loving this just because they don't need to bring a generator or have power on site anymore. Because they can store things easily in a washable frunk. Lots of other applications. This is good stuff.

If it has decent towing range OR can be charged quickly, i see this replacing my gas powered silverado.

When I go to races, I am pulling my trailer, the bed is packed full of stuff and I need to put my clothes/  gear / travel stuff in the racecar and hope it doesn't rain too hard.

The frunk would allow my families stuff and travel stuff to get to our destination without worry and without unloading a racecar before I take it off the trailer.  

This seems about perfect!

Of course, I am cheap, so I will probably try to get one off lease.

(If they can ever make enough chips to actually sell these trucks....)

In reply to tuna55 :

Ford didn't need to out-Tesla Tesla. Tesla pushes the limits - sometimes it shows what can be done if you start without existing compromises, sometimes it just plain doesn't work. I think they really do have an overall goal of transforming the industry, not just selling as many cars as possible. That's great for them but it wouldn't work with the F150, the very definition of a bread and butter mainstream vehicle. It has to succeed and be an easy choice for someone trading in a 3 year old work truck and so Ford took a different approach. They had to out-F150 the F150 instead :)

It will be really interesting to see how the market reacts to this conservative vehicle versus the weird Cybertruck. The Tesla might bring some new ideas that will get adopted by the big three but mostly it's a statement of just how far you can go. It's more like a show car, but a show car you can actually buy.

Those who use their trucks primarily as tow vehicles will be the last to go electric. That's fine. It's similar to how we have both gas and diesel engines now, they have different attributes. Everyone on GRM is constantly on the road with a race car in tow, but we are not the bulk of the market.

I think if towing is super important right now the hybrid F150 makes a lot more sense, and you can still get a lot of the features of the Lightning like a 7.2kw generator to power the job site or your house, better mpg than a regular F150, scales on bed/hitch, etc. You don't get the frunk though.

maschinenbau said:

In reply to adam525i :

I bet in the future we start seeing fully-integrated "regen axles" for retrofitting trailers. They could be standard sizes to replace old axles, include a motor/generator, and massive cables to run to the tow vehicle for charge/discharge. OEM's would have to be onboard for the control programming and built-in cable receptacles near the hitch.

For what trailers?  This seems like it would be a huge increase in cost for a simple box trailer, a car hauler, or even a camper.

It makes perfect sense for cases of high usage.  But most trailers I know of are a ~once every few weeks, once a month, or even couple times a year type usage and I can't imagine the extra cost being justified there.

Schmidlap said:

 You don't get the frunk though.

Ahem.  It's the "Mega Power Frunk."

Overall, it seems like an excellent truck for truck use, especially if it's mostly local.  Being able to plug your power tools into it is awesome.  Looks like the only thing it can't really do is long-distance heavy duty towing.  That'll come with time, though.  Looking like a "regular" truck will probably be excellent for sales.  I bought a handful of Ford stock yesterday, and I think this will help.

My 2012 Mustang GT did 0-60 in I think 4.1 seconds.  It was quick.  This 4 door, full size truck is only a handful of tenths slower.

dps214 said:

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

dps214 said:

MrChaos said:

Keith Tanner said:

A thought - 

Since EVs can recapture energy while braking, does a heavy load really mean a significant loss of range? An ICE does a bunch of work to accelerate a mass and then the brakes turn all that energy into heat and throw it away. An EV gets some of it back - and the more the thing weighs, the more it can get back. It's probably limited by the rate at which the batteries can accept the power. So driving around town with a big load may not result in a big range loss.

Towing, you've got drag. Drag sucks.

doesn't help the only other EV with a decent tow rating. the model x. At full load the best range came from a car on an open trailer but was still only 55% of total range iirc. It is really the drag/aero of the load being towed that matters.

That does bring up an interesting point though. As the trailer gets heavy the thing that sucks the most about the f150 is the brakes, and you end up relying fairly heavily on the trailer brakes. Adding regen braking into the equation might help that situation a lot.

Regen only works on the tow vehicle, though.

Reminds me of wae describing the effects of his Mercedes' radar sensitive adaptive cruise control slowing the truck down when towing.  It does not engage trailer brakes when it does this.

Right. Truck regen braking plus physical brakes might mean it can actually stop with a trailer without the trailer brakes doing 80% of the work.

But then you lose the spent acceleration energy to heat from the trailer brakes, instead of recouping it as battery charge.

Which is where this subthread started...

infinitenexus said:

My 2012 Mustang GT did 0-60 in I think 4.1 seconds.  It was quick.  This 4 door, full size truck is only a handful of tenths slower.

The 2003 Lightning was 5.3 seconds 0-60, whereas the 2003 Mustang GT was 5.8. :)

I'm disappointed to see the "stick a giant iPad on the dash" idea copied from Tesla, but assuming you can put it into RWD mode and turn off the TC, a high-torque EV seems like it could be a worthy successor to the Lightning name.

maschinenbau said:

In reply to adam525i :

I bet in the future we start seeing fully-integrated "regen axles" for retrofitting trailers. They could be standard sizes to replace old axles, include a motor/generator, and massive cables to run to the tow vehicle for charge/discharge. OEM's would have to be onboard for the control programming and built-in cable receptacles near the hitch.

I mean, why make them only for regen?  It seems like you've got to put a bunch of stuff in there, why not use the trailer axle to accelerate a little bit?  I'm not suggesting powering the truck completely, but I'll bet some smart automotive engineer could figure out a way integrate the trailer thrust just enough to power the trailer just enough that it doesn't try to swap places with the truck, yet makes it less dog-y off the line.  

And for that matter, if you're putting a motor/generator on the axle...why not batteries? It would help with the long-haul aspect of things.   

In reply to codrus (Forum Supporter) :

That LCD screen is easily the least appealing and I don't want that thing to me.

rothwem said:

maschinenbau said:

In reply to adam525i :

I bet in the future we start seeing fully-integrated "regen axles" for retrofitting trailers. They could be standard sizes to replace old axles, include a motor/generator, and massive cables to run to the tow vehicle for charge/discharge. OEM's would have to be onboard for the control programming and built-in cable receptacles near the hitch.

I mean, why make them only for regen?  It seems like you've got to put a bunch of stuff in there, why not use the trailer axle to accelerate a little bit?  I'm not suggesting powering the truck completely, but I'll bet some smart automotive engineer could figure out a way integrate the trailer thrust just enough to power the trailer just enough that it doesn't try to swap places with the truck, yet makes it less dog-y off the line.  

And for that matter, if you're putting a motor/generator on the axle...why not batteries? It would help with the long-haul aspect of things.   

Because batteries are a big step up in complexity of management and packaging. Motors in the axle, easy. Batteries, not so much. They need heat management and charge control and they're expensive and they're bulky. I don't doubt that we may see it, but it's definitely not as easy as regen brakes or even a bit of motor assist.

Surprised no one has said this yet - Single Cab Long Bed please!

rothwem said:

And for that matter, if you're putting a motor/generator on the axle...why not batteries? It would help with the long-haul aspect of things.   

More batteries means more weight, and more vehicle or trailer weight means less weight that you can haul. 

I just want to say that I'm really excited about this truck. It's a landmark vehicle, and I think Ford has set themselves up to succeed with it. Kudos.

On the occasion that you need to do some distance travel, like vacation, if in the frunk you put a gas/diesel powered generator, can you drive 24 hr stints?   

Or place that same generator in the regular bed next to a bed mounted fuel tank.

John Welsh said:

On the occassion that you need to do some distance travel, like vacation, if in the frunk you put a gas/diesel powered generator, can you drive 24 hr stints?  

Would need to be a BIG generator.  If you assume it takes 40-50 hp to cruise down the freeway that's a 30-40kw generator.  They look like this:

FYI - nondenominational EV towing thread -->  https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/ev-towing/183762/page1/

In reply to ultraclyde :

I knew I couldn't be the only one thinking such thing...ha.

The whole frunk idea really excites me.  The idea of being able to have a open bed truck but to still be able to have some significant lockable storage area is a great combination.

For me up in a rusty climate, the idea of the F150's  aluminum body become important.  Here, I have to factor in some longevity to amortize the significant vehicle cost of a pickup truck.  

So how long before someone takes the running gear from a Lightning and swaps it into an older Ranger to recreate Ford's first EV pickup?