The Imperial Storm looks bad as well

I wish I could figure out what type of rust proofing toyota used, my 1994 pickup has rusted through the passanger roof support. 14 years outside might be a long time though.

I think we should let the big 3 figure out for themselves how to become profitable. This reminds me of when I was living in San Diego, the city decided to drastically expand retirement for city employees, but didn't/couldn't fund it. Exact same thing in Detroit, the management drastically expanded employee benefits while not being able to fund them. What got them also was leasing all those big expensive SUVs and relying on their pre-leased cars to still turn a profit. So basically they helped people lease a quickly diminishing asset, and were left holding the bag.

Bobzilla wrote: Are you for real? Toyota hides it's problems under the rug so no one knows. Geesh. . . what about the 3.0L sludging? The camry's that popped head gaskets faster than a first gen neon? Hear about those in the mainstream? Nope.

You mean the 3.0 sludging which, as I have stated before, is an industry wide problem yet Toyota chose to extend the warranty on those engines to 8 years with no mileage limit for 'oil gelling"? Even though it was entirely possible a lot of the problem COULD be traced to poor maintenance? Also less that 1% of the cars they built in the suspect time period had the problem? [Yoda]Yeah, shoved under the rug it was.[/Yoda]

http://www.autonews.com/article/20071029/ANA03/710290343/1078&Profile=1078

And BTW SAAB did the same thing? VW and Mercedes have both had the same problem, just like early Chrysler 2.7's and Mercedes extended the warranty on their engines to 150,000 miles for that condition? Isuzu had, like, NO oil sludge problems until about the same time? Yeah, somehow it's Toyota's fault. (I still think it's something to do with oil formulation changes which were quietly swept under the rug by the oil refineries.)

cHRYSLER 2.7's self destructed internally. I saw more than a few and that was not an oiling issue. I've seen my share of upset customers that were denied warranty coverage die to "abuse". So yeah, that's the one. Nothing on the camry headgaskets?

Maybe if you'd stop leghumping toyota long enough you'd notice the obvious: They quality and prices have been heading in opposite directions for years. When the Koreans are building "better toyota's" than toyota, they might have a problem. But hey. . what would I know.

16vCorey wrote: Am I the only one who thought of this after reading the title?

Hey, it's a NASCAR pit road observer!

I suppose it's no different than you leghumping GM.

Yessir, go ahead and leghump GM with their exploding 3800 intakes, 3.4 and various V8 intake gaskets that piss antifreeze if you look at them crosseyed (and can cost you an engine if enough coolant gets in the crankcase), LS3 cold piston knock (wear your earplugs!) VORTEC fuel injectors, in-tank fuel pumps, I could go on for a coupla pages. NONE of these are worthy of out of warranty consideration by GM even though they are well known and well documented failures.

How about Grand Cherokee window regulators 99-2004? Or maybe rear axle pinion bearings on the same vehicles? Rear main seals on 4.0's, anyone? Maybe cracking 4.0 exhaust manifolds? 3.7's with sticking valves? (If it's out of powertrain, you are screwed even though we've seen that happen as low as 25K miles.) Look into Jeep 4.7 V8 oil consumption problems. Check around and see just how much out of warranty help Chrysler offered on those.

I've only been writing service since 1985 and have seen firsthand how the Big 3 treated their customers as opposed to the imports. Even KIA handled out of warranty customer problems better than any of the Big 3 I have worked for.

But what do I know?

Bobzilla wrote: cHRYSLER 2.7's self destructed internally. I saw more than a few and that was not an oiling issue. I've seen my share of upset customers that were denied warranty coverage die to "abuse". So yeah, that's the one. Nothing on the camry headgaskets? Maybe if you'd stop leghumping toyota long enough you'd notice the obvious: They quality and prices have been heading in opposite directions for years. When the Koreans are building "better toyota's" than toyota, they might have a problem. But hey. . what would I know.

you're just pissed because GM is going to go under and you will no longer be able to buy a "real truck" anymore. Have fun driving a ridgeline in 5 years...

I know bobzilla's going to call this more leghumping, I'm just wondering if anybody else finds it really odd that suddenly several of the major car manufacturers suddenly developed oil sludging problems for no apparent reason. And that over the years prior to this sudden exponential jump it had been found sludging was caused by lack of maintenance? Or crappy oil? (A certain major brand of engine oil which shall remain nameless was known as 'Ol' Sludgemaker' for years and to this day I have customers who specifically request that brand not be used in their vehicles.) But suddenly it's the manufacturer's fault? Hmmm.

ignorant wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: cHRYSLER 2.7's self destructed internally. I saw more than a few and that was not an oiling issue. I've seen my share of upset customers that were denied warranty coverage die to "abuse". So yeah, that's the one. Nothing on the camry headgaskets? Maybe if you'd stop leghumping toyota long enough you'd notice the obvious: They quality and prices have been heading in opposite directions for years. When the Koreans are building "better toyota's" than toyota, they might have a problem. But hey. . what would I know.

you're just pissed because GM is going to go under and you will no longer be able to buy a "real truck" anymore. Have fun driving a ridgeline in 5 years...

You really do live up to your screen name don't you? Here's the best part: I won't need to look for another truck for another 10-15 years. This one's going to be driven into the ground and unlike the wannabe's that'll be a little onger than 5 years. . .

Jensenman wrote: I know bobzilla's going to call this more leghumping, I'm just wondering if anybody else finds it really odd that suddenly several of the major car manufacturers suddenly developed oil sludging problems for no apparent reason. And that over the years prior to this sudden exponential jump it had been found sludging was caused by lack of maintenance? Or crappy oil? (A certain major brand of engine oil which shall remain nameless was known as 'Ol' Sludgemaker' for years and to this day I have customers who specifically request that brand not be used in their vehicles.) But suddenly it's the manufacturer's fault? Hmmm.

It is the manufacturer's problem when they extend the OCI's out to make their maintenance costs seem lower (much like GM's 100k between tuneups/maint). When you do something to save a penny that bites you in the butt, it's your fault. Period.

I had typed this long reply but.. something happened and it was lost.

This whole deal is about customer service. Customer service through product and customer service through after care. period.

Here is quick points

dad bought 2000 honda accord 4cylinder auto trans

Honda extends trans warranty to 100k miles now time limit due to issues

Dad has dealership change fluid more than required schedule cause of "loopy or slipping shifts into 2nd"

Trans dies at 130k miles.

Dad is not happy trans should last more.

Dad calls honda.. They give him a trans for free. That's right FREEEEEEEE

Car is 100k miles outside of original warranty and 30k outside extended

If honda made a car out of poop, vomit, and HIV ridden medical waste my father would still buy it.

they had a problem.. They lived up to it.. OUT of warranty.

please read http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/files/101WaystoDestroyYourTribe.pdf

good night Have fun driving a ridgeline in the future...

Is that bob behind the wheel..

butta fly d00000000rs

Bobzilla wrote:

Jensenman wrote: I know bobzilla's going to call this more leghumping, I'm just wondering if anybody else finds it really odd that suddenly several of the major car manufacturers suddenly developed oil sludging problems for no apparent reason. And that over the years prior to this sudden exponential jump it had been found sludging was caused by lack of maintenance? Or crappy oil? (A certain major brand of engine oil which shall remain nameless was known as 'Ol' Sludgemaker' for years and to this day I have customers who specifically request that brand not be used in their vehicles.) But suddenly it's the manufacturer's fault? Hmmm.

It is the manufacturer's problem when they extend the OCI's out to make their maintenance costs seem lower (much like GM's 100k between tuneups/maint). When you do something to save a penny that bites you in the butt, it's your fault. Period.

reduce their costs? maint costs have been the responsibility of the owner. I think they were working towards the voice of the customer there...

please read http://sethgodin.typepad.com/seths_blog/files/101WaystoDestroyYourTribe.pdf

Does your ridgeline have butta fly doors?

Ah, a subject I am QUITE familiar with.

Service intervals were extended due to marketing surveys done in the era of points and condensers in which one of the tasks people disliked most was having their car serviced at 6,000 mile intervals. This (along with emissions system requirements) led to the development of electronic ignition, fuel injection, etc but the humble oil change interval stayed the same 3,000 miles for years and years. The manufacturers came under increasing pressure to extend service intervals so the regular and severe service schedules were developed in regards to oil changes. Generally those intervals are 3000 and 7500 miles.

OCI schedules are determined by local operating conditions. Anyone who reads their manual and is honest with themselves will find that almost invariably they come under at least 1 or 2 conditions which put them in the 'severe service' schedule, or the 3000 mile intervals. I have never met ANYONE whose driving falls under the 'ideal' schedule and when my customers ask me about it I will tell them exactly that.

So when Mr or Ms. Consumer decides they know more than the engineers (translation: too lazy/cheap/busy to properly service their car) then suddenly it's the manufacturers' fault for building a crappy car. Yeah, right. It's the same thing that plagues this nation everywhere: I don't wanna take responsibility for the consequences of my actions.Waahhh. And I am gonna hold my breath until I turn blue if you don't fix my stupidity at no cost to me. Wahhh.

Oops, that's more manufacturer buttkissery on my part, I suppose.

it doesn't matterwhat I say here. IT's wrong because I don't believe in the two mainstays. I don't like Bimmers and I have no desire to own a miata. Just those two tidbits could make Steven Hawkins a retard on this board.

Bobzilla wrote:

Jensenman wrote: I know bobzilla's going to call this more leghumping, I'm just wondering if anybody else finds it really odd that suddenly several of the major car manufacturers suddenly developed oil sludging problems for no apparent reason. And that over the years prior to this sudden exponential jump it had been found sludging was caused by lack of maintenance? Or crappy oil? (A certain major brand of engine oil which shall remain nameless was known as 'Ol' Sludgemaker' for years and to this day I have customers who specifically request that brand not be used in their vehicles.) But suddenly it's the manufacturer's fault? Hmmm.

It is the manufacturer's problem when they extend the OCI's out to make their maintenance costs seem lower (much like GM's 100k between tuneups/maint). When you do something to save a penny that bites you in the butt, it's your fault. Period.

I will disagree there Bobber.

I have personal experience of regular sub-5k mile maintenance on an 80k mike car that required an engine rebuild and over 30 that I have written here at the 'ship (since I have been here) that have required "desludging" even when using Valvoline "Premium" conventional oil.

I still think there is a lot of cheapening of the product at the oil company end, Personally I don't blame the customer or the car.

Bobzilla wrote: it doesn't matterwhat I say here. IT's wrong because I don't believe in the two mainstays. I don't like Bimmers and I have no desire to own a miata. Just those two tidbits could make Steven Hawkins a retard on this board.

Haha...it's funny 'cause it's true!

I can't think of another non-brand specific board with nearly as much anti-domestic sentiment as this one.

Is it sad that I love all cars regardless of point of origin?

John Brown wrote: Is it sad that I love all cars regardless of point of origin?

If so, I'm a sad individual.

Well, I probably am anyway. E36 M3.

John Brown wrote: Is it sad that I love all cars regardless of point of origin?

Same here. . I own Domestics, japanese and korean. . .

Bobzilla wrote: it doesn't matterwhat I say here. IT's wrong because I don't believe in the two mainstays. I don't like Bimmers and I have no desire to own a miata. Just those two tidbits could make Steven Hawkins a retard on this board.

You don't like the E30 OR the Miata? Blasphemy!

I didn't say I don'tlike the Miata. I just said I have no desire to own one.

MikeSVO wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: it doesn't matterwhat I say here. IT's wrong because I don't believe in the two mainstays. I don't like Bimmers and I have no desire to own a miata. Just those two tidbits could make Steven Hawkins a retard on this board.

Haha...it's funny 'cause it's true! I can't think of another non-brand specific board with *nearly* as much anti-domestic sentiment as this one.

funny you say then when one of the three cars most talked about on this board is the P71, made by Ford.

thatsnowinnebago wrote:

MikeSVO wrote:

Bobzilla wrote: it doesn't matterwhat I say here. IT's wrong because I don't believe in the two mainstays. I don't like Bimmers and I have no desire to own a miata. Just those two tidbits could make Steven Hawkins a retard on this board.

Haha...it's funny 'cause it's true! I can't think of another non-brand specific board with *nearly* as much anti-domestic sentiment as this one.

funny you say then when one of the three cars most talked about on this board is the P71, made by Ford.

of Canada...

funny you say then when one of the three cars most talked about on this board is the P71

Er, no, for the most part there is like 3 or 4 people who make the same threads with slightly different subjects over and over and over and over and over and over (do you see where I am going with this?) to make it seem like the P71 is popular. I wouldn't touch that land barge with a 30 foot freakin' pole, and I'm willing to bet alot of people agree with me.

I am a nut for Brit cars so I think I can say I am intimately familiar with manufacturers' cost cutting.

I hold the manufacturers responsible when something pukes way before its time which should require no maintenance on the owners' part, like the aforementioned Jeep window regulators. Those items have no specified maintenance interval. They are not easily accessible. Should they last forever? Of course not; nothing lasts forever. But when regulators bust at 20K miles and I have customers who have replaced as many as 7 out of pocket at a few hundred bucks a pop and Chrysler refuses to even consider out of warranty help, well it's no surprise that we don't see people trading '02's and '03's for '08's and '09's. Fool me once, shame on you etc.

But stretching the maintenance intervals to their limits because someone is too cheap/lazy/busy to maintain a vehicle, suddenly my sympathy well dries up. I have had people show up who have gone 10, 15, 20 and in one memorable case 45,000 miles (no that is NOT a fatfinger or BS number, it was a 1985 Tempo 4 door, black with red interior, I will never forget that one!) without changing their oil. They pretty much deserve what they get, which is nothing.

I still feel the recent spate of oil gelling failures probably has a lot to do with oil reformulation than anything else but I see, first hand, a lack of maintenance as a big reason cars die before their time.

HiTempguy wrote:

funny you say then when one of the three cars most talked about on this board is the P71

Er, no, for the most part there is like 3 or 4 people who make the same threads with slightly different subjects over and over and over and over and over and over (do you see where I am going with this?) to make it seem like the P71 is popular. I wouldn't touch that land barge with a 30 foot freakin' pole, and I'm willing to bet alot of people agree with me.

+1

not cause its a ford.. cause its a loser of a car.... I sold my ranger with 156k miles on it.. if it didn't need a trans I'd still be driving it.. it drank gas too..

now where can I import a mk1 escort...