The Last Straw

As I was driving home this morning (I work 4pm-12am) in the driving rain, my Subaru developed yet another problem- it had become much louder. At first, I thought a tire had gone flat, so I pulled over under an bridge and checked my tires. I couldn't see any flats. The engine, however, sounded much louder and rougher, and I could feel vibes in my right foot whenever I accelerated. The Subie got me the final 10 miles home and starts up. I don't know exactly what happened or where the problem occured since it was pitch black and the rain was torrential. I don't see anything obvious when I look under the car or hood. It's hard for me to tell if the engine is behaving any differently because I can't hear it over the exhaust. I know the exhaust has been damaged somehow, but I don't know if there's anything worse going on as well.

For the time being, I'll be taking the RX-7 to and from work aside from bad weather.

Do you guys think I should give up on the Subaru and go find another (newer) car, or should I spend the money to repair it? Here is a list of what's wrong with it:

-Inspection sticker has expired
-CEL was on before this latest incident for a vaccuum leak. I've done the 'spray WD-40 onto vaccuum hoses' trick two times so far, but I can't find the leak.
-Said inspection sticker would have been renewed if not for the vandalism damage to the spoiler, which has the third brake light built into it. It would have failed just emissions and I could still drive it legally for 60 days, but the brake light damage would have failed saftey and it would have been illegal to drive the car at all.
-Overdue for a timing belt and water pump replacement. I was going to have whatever shop does that check the CEL as well
-Now the exhaust damage

Maybe it's time I look into getting that WRX I wanted, insurance be damned.

Is the car paid off? If so would you want to be making payments again? If you sell your Subi how much could you get out of it? It sound like you want to gerid eny way.So I guese sell it.....or CHALLENGE car

move somewhere without inspections....that E36 M3 is almost like a police state compared to Michigan...

Sounds like you need a friend that's handy with a wrench, since it looks like you don't want to pay shop rates to get stuff fixed. Here's what I'm reading:

• Needs third brake light, cost = $1 and 15 minutes
• Needs new vacuum hoses, cost = $20 and 1 hour
• Needs exhaust fixed, cost = $0-75 dollars, depending on severity (5 minutes DIY or an hour at a muffler shop), could be loose manifold bolts or could be a rusty pipe/muffler
• Needs timing belt and water pump, cost = $75 and 8 hours if it's your first time doing a timing belt, or pay a shop labor rates

So, if you put some time and effort into it, you should be able to get the car problem-free for $100-300...which is about equal to your insurance increase for a six month premium going to a WRX.

Depending on what year your Subie is, you might just put off the timing belt until it actually fails, since you're penny pinching. The 2.2 changed over to interference around the same time OBDII came ('96 IIRC), the 1.8 was never interference, and the newer 2.0/2.5s are interference.

Vacuum hoses are simple, if that is truly your problem. Get some new hose, remove the old hoses one at a time and replace with a new hose the same length...no more difficult than doing plug wires. I wonder if that is truly your issue, since there is no CEL code for "vacuum hose leak" and it sounds like you're trusting somebody's interpretation of a code. What was the actual code?

3rd brake light? Come on now, anybody can fix that and it takes a matter of minutes.

Exhaust problems are extremely easy to diagnose. Get the car in the air (jackstands, ramps, whatever). Put it in neutral/park. Start engine. Get under/over engine/exhaust and listen. If the noise is hard to pinpoint, get a piece of hose (heater hose or garden hose) and put it to your ear. Find leak. Repair as necessary. Most exhaust leaks are very simple fixes.

As my friend Arnold would say, "Stop whining." If I can do multiple engine swaps, exhaust configurations, etc. on my Subie wagon for less than $300, then I bet you can do some minor repairs for the same price. If you don't want to do your own labor and you don't want to pay shop labor even for such a small amount of work...then you're asking a rhetorical question, the only option remaining is to get a newer car still under warranty. Even Toyotas/Miatas/E30s/P71s/whatever the fanbois recommend have belts, water pumps, exhaust pipes, and third brake lights to need attention eventually.

Bryce

Have you checked the engine mounts? One let go in my Cougar while cruising down the highway and I had similar symptoms - it was fine while cruising, but when accelerating it was much louder and there was a lot more vibration. I'm not sure if your exhaust damage was a pre-existing condition or not, but is it possible the engine moved enough to damage the exhaust? The Cougar has four engine/transmission mounts so one letting go wasn't disastrous and was actually kind of hard to notice. Maybe the Subaru is similar. I was able to cobble together a new mount from some threaded rod, fender washers and a rubber roller from a boat trailer and the noise and vibration went away.

Bob

The 3rd brake light is a goner due to the stupid vandal that threw a brick through the back window, right? Does the car have another third brake light on the rear deck, so you could take the spoiler off and still be legal? Wouldn't solve all the problems but it'd be a start.

That being said, sounds like you want someone to give you permission to sell the car and start over. Before you do that, give yourself a little distance from the car for a few days, drive the RX7 and do another honest assessment of what the car needs, what it's worth on the market and what it's worth to you. Then sell it and go find that WRX you really want

Nashco wrote: - Needs third brake light, cost = $1 and 15 minutes 3rd brake light? Come on now, anybody can fix that and it takes a matter of minutes.

See also:

http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/my-subaru-got-vandalized-again/10526/page1/

The whole thing needs replacing. Spoilers at the local u-pull-its are $75-100 if I don't mind them being green or white, or I can take a drive to CT to get a red one. IIRC, coupes never came with decklid 3rd brake lights, but adding one from a sedan and plugging the holes in the trunk might be cheaper/easier. I'll have to look at a junked sedan.

Nashco wrote: - Needs new vacuum hoses, cost = $20 and 1 hour I wonder if that is truly your issue, since there is no CEL code for "vacuum hose leak" and it sounds like you're trusting somebody's interpretation of a code. What was the actual code?

I'll get it pulled again at AutoZone and ask around rs25.com and nasioc.com. The code is the same one you gets when you forget to screw the gas cap tightly enough, so it must think it isn't getting enough fuel pressure or vaccuum somewhere.

Nashco wrote: - Needs exhaust fixed, cost = $0-75 dollars, depending on severity (5 minutes DIY or an hour at a muffler shop), could be loose manifold bolts or could be a rusty pipe/muffler Exhaust problems are extremely easy to diagnose. Get the car in the air (jackstands, ramps, whatever). Put it in neutral/park. Start engine. Get under/over engine/exhaust and listen. If the noise is hard to pinpoint, get a piece of hose (heater hose or garden hose) and put it to your ear. Find leak. Repair as necessary. Most exhaust leaks are very simple fixes.

Besides replacing the whole exhaust system, what other repair options are there for exhaust systems? Patches, welding, etc.?

Nashco wrote: - Needs timing belt and water pump, cost = $75 and 8 hours if it's your first time doing a timing belt, or pay a shop labor rates Depending on what year your Subie is, you might just put off the timing belt until it actually fails, since you're penny pinching. The 2.2 changed over to interference around the same time OBDII came ('96 IIRC), the 1.8 was never interference, and the newer 2.0/2.5s are interference.

'98 Impreza 2.2L coupe.

This is the job that intimidates me the most. I'm still very new at working on cars, and every job I've done so far on my cars has been relatively simple. Having a cramped, exposed driveway doesn't help either. What's involved in replacing the timing belt and water pump on the Subaru? I've heard there's a lot of disassembly invovled, like removing the bumper and radiator.

Nashco wrote: Sounds like you need a friend that's handy with a wrench

I think it's time to ask around some of the people I've met at autocrosses and see if any of them would be willing to help me. None of my friends are any handier with a wrench than I am.

[vulture] hmmmm Subaru....?

[/vulture]

You are welcome to come by my place. You know where I am,but it is sort a hike for you. You are welcome to the garage as long as we can push it out ath the end of the day,and I can get my classics back inside. I don't know how to weld,but I have friends near by that do,and they have welders,and lifts in their garages.

Chris

78 RX-7 GS 74 REPU 78 Datsun 510

P.S. you could just sell it to me instead.

It's just a shot in the dark but it sounds to me like your engine may have regurgitated a spark plug.Mine did this when I was conveniently 60 miles from home and entering a freeway on-ramp.I was able to find the plug and much to my chagrin there were several aluminum threads still attached to the it.I had to install a heli-coil. The timing belt and water pump on a Scoob are ridiculously easy to change.No need to remove the radiator or bumper.Though getting the fans out of the way will net you a bit more room.

You're overcomplicating your repairs. I am ASSuming you don't need a new spoiler, etc. just to pass inspection with your third brake light dilemma. Any third brake light will work. I've got a few of them sitting in my garage, two from Subie wagons, that I got for free/freeish. Hell, I bet you'd pass inspection if you put a trailer light back there. It doesn't have to be pretty to be legal, otherwise the Mazda 5 wouldn't have made it to the US.

It's extremely rare to need an entire new exhaust system...usually, when that's the case, the rest of the bottom of the car is rusted away with it. Like I said, get underneath and look at the thing, there's no magic science to finding exhaust noises, they're pretty simple. If your muffler fell off the pipe because it's rusted out, you can get a new muffler and pipe for <$100 installed at your local muffler shop. If a flange is loose, it costs zero dollars to fix, just tighten some nuts (and/or toss some Accoustiseal in the offending flange before tightening). There are a lot of in-between fixes, but those are the two extremes.

Getting to the timing belt is cake. You don't have to pull the bumper, but you do have to pull the radiator, belts, hoses, and timing covers. I usually pull the battery and some other miscellaneous stuff just to get some working space. This stuff is all super easy. Radiator takes longer to drain than it does to remove (two hose clamps, two hold down bolts). Once the belt is exposed, there are some tricks to lining stuff up, marking it, removing the belt, compressing the tensioner, and reinstalling. These are things that some online reading will solve, but will take time for your first attempt. If you can find a friend to help that knows what an interference timing belt job entails, this is where their help will go a long way.

You sound like you're willing to put time into, just need a bit of knowledge. See if somebody local (on this board, nasioc, etc.) is willing to help you out. Compensate them with food and beverage, maybe even a few bucks if you're feeling generous and things go smoothly. You'll save tons of money and learn lots...you know, the whole teach a man to fish thing. If this all still sounds like too much work, suck it up and take it to a shop or take the easy way out and sell it for chump change as is and buy something bigger/better/faster (and more expensive).

Bryce

Find the "coil pack" near the center of the engine,on top of the intake and follow the spark plug wires from there down to where the plugs screw into the heads.Make sure all four are installed and secure.

Remove spoiler and replace with a trunk without?

Would they know there is no third brake light?

Yea, my E30 passed inspection 3 years in a row sans 3rd brake light.

Or, just get any spoiler you can and shoot it with some semi-flat black.

Per Schroeder wrote: [vulture] hmmmm Subaru....? [/vulture]

You thought the undercarraige of your NYG Neon was rusty? Have you seen the undercarraige of a Subaru that's spent it's entire life in New England?

z31maniac wrote: Remove spoiler and replace with a trunk without? Would they know there is no third brake light?

The problem there boils down to painting. There are no local junkyards with red Subaru sedans/coupes. So, do I spend the $100-150 on a green trunklid and drive with a ghetto-looking car for a while, or cough up the extra money to have a red one shipped from somewhere else, or have it painted to match the rest of the car? That's why I'm thinking removing the spoiler and plugging the spoiler mounting holes might work better.

RexSeven wrote: Have you seen the undercarraige of a Subaru that's spent it's entire life in New England?

I have.

My daily is a 98 Impreza 2.2 just like yours, just a four door and autotragic. The good news about the exhaust is that the OEM stuff from Subaru is all stainless, so unless some part of it has been replaced, it shouldn't be too rusty. The hardware that bolts it all together is probably rusty though, and could have given out.

A third brake light from a sedan is probably $10 from a pick-and-pull and the wiring already exists to connect it. Take off the spoiler in the meanwhile until you can find a suitable replacement. Or I'll trade trunks with you, even swap.

Just start plugging away at it, doing what you can, when you can. There's no need to get it all done in one day. The vac lines, especially, get a whole lot of bulk line and have at it. Having a vac line diagram would definitely help.

RexSeven wrote:

Per Schroeder wrote: [vulture] hmmmm Subaru....? [/vulture]

You thought the undercarraige of your NYG Neon was rusty? Have you seen the undercarraige of a Subaru that's spent it's entire life in New England?

z31maniac wrote: Remove spoiler and replace with a trunk without? Would they know there is no third brake light?

The problem there boils down to painting. There are no local junkyards with red Subaru sedans/coupes. So, do I spend the $100-150 on a green trunklid and drive with a ghetto-looking car for a while, or cough up the extra money to have a red one shipped from somewhere else, or have it painted to match the rest of the car? That's why I'm thinking removing the spoiler and plugging the spoiler mounting holes might work better.

Don't bother with paint. Period. It's your DD. It doesn't make it get better MPG or be more reliable. Hell, i don't even worry about my fun car looking pretty.

I agree, a functional car is much better than a pretty lawn ornament. If you want to be different, or just like all the new import boys, sand the trunk lid and let it rust.

The vacume lines shouldn't take much to replace and the exhaust is a matter of finding your leak. Get yourself a decent set of tools to work on the car and tear into it, its the best way to learn. Take pictures with a digicam if you think it'll be trouble getting it all back in one piece.