The mazdaspeed 6 thread...

Tried to search, doesn't look like these have been discussed at-length around here yet.

Anyone here have one? Anyone here track one? I'm going to look at an 06 with 103k this afternoon, anything to look out for? All of the forums I can find are terrible, which seems to be the norm for marque specific forums, and all I can find about them looks like misinformed rumors and hearsay.

So far the issues I've found seem to be turbo seals (smoke at idle?), rear end vibration, chain tensioners, and some sort of clutch problem.

Closest I've come to one was a review I read years ago, I think in "Automobile", that basically considered them a new musclecar. They said it went like stink in a straight line, but didn't turn all that well.

So, just rumors and hearsay from me

We had one around the office when they were first launched. It was fast, and had a decent interior. The driving experience wasn't what I had hoped for though. It wasn't bad, it just felt like less than the sum of it's parts. I recall a boost interruption issue under full throttle. It wouldn't give full boost in the bottom two gears, or it limited power. I just remember the power delivery being non-linear.

I certainly wouldn't blame someone for buying one, but it wasn't my cup of tea.

Let me shed a little light on ye olde ms6 for ya. First- the rear ends are weak, but it should have been replaced under a TSB- same with the clutch. The turbo on all the DISI equipped cars are prone to sneezing seals, this generally happens when someone straps a downpipe to it and cranks the boost, and lets it spike. Haven't heard anything about the tensioners, but they may vary from ms3 to ms6.

To echo other sentiments, they don't turn all that well, but no AWD car will ever be as good as a RWD car, at least with a front bias setup like the ms6. Only thing I'd be worried about is the miles, I don't know how well the DISI holds up to big miles yet.... but if it's relatively stock, it could be a good deal. Plus, they're fun.

They don't handle THAT badly... the salesman let me flog one a bit through some backroads, and it was entertaining. Definitely could have been much improved with the usual parts, though.

I can't be the first to go down this mental pipe dream so has anyone looked at adding awd bits from the ms6 to a 3? Is there any platform crossover or is it just the mill that's shared?

You are not the first, and it's actually been done.... once.

http://www.dgmotorsports.com/show_cars.php?ShowCarID=16

Strangely, the 3 is/was offered as an N/A awd car in Japan. Nearest I can tell, the engineers didn't think it was feasible/reasonable to make the 3 a turbo awd car, because of the orientation of the turbo. It's basically crammed against the firewall, making exhaust routing a PITA- and dropping it right on top of the t-case. Now, making a regular 3 into an ms3- that one is easy.

I almost bought one last month, but I couldn't find a car that wasn't beat, brown (black mica) or that didn't have the ugly white/black leather seats.

Some people in the midwest must think that they are made of Gold, there were lots of people asking $18k to $20k for used ones with 80k miles.

In reply to bluej:
It's been done with MS6 and CX-7 components, but it looks way too expensive and involved for your typical shade-tree tuner:

http://www.awrracing.com/blog/2009/03/30/all-wheel-drive-mazdaspeed3-rallye-car-concept/

In reply to skruffy:
If you get an MS6 or MS3, get a rear motor mount. Mazda used very soft mounts in both cars and the engine moves around a lot. Adding a RMM will tighten up the steering and improve front grip with the only penalty being a little vibration when the A/C kicks in (after it's been broken in, of course). I've added a RMM on my MS3 and so far it's the best modification I've done.

The PCV system sucks on the DISI cars. It's part of the reason turbo seals blow out and also causes gunk to accumulate in the intake manifold and EGR valve. Mazda has yet to come up with a fix. On a car with that amount of mileage I would add an oil catch can and/or this aftermarket PCV fix (http://www.pt-performance.com/showProduct.php?vID=4&cID=4&pID=260) until Mazda gets off their duff and fixes the PCV system.

That is more of a touring car than a track car IMO.

In reply to amg_rx7:

Yeah, but for the 2-3 track days I can get to a year it should be entertaining enough. I got over the all out race car daily driver phase a few years ago after I realized I spend 99.9% of my time driving on the street.

Someone at the office had one, he sold it after 7 months...

Acceleration was nice, but in terms of handling it's one of those cars that feels good at 7/10ths, but has the aplomb of a base 1990's lumina when asked for anything additional.

skruffy wrote: In reply to amg_rx7: Yeah, but for the 2-3 track days I can get to a year it should be entertaining enough. I got over the all out race car daily driver phase a few years ago after I realized I spend 99.9% of my time driving on the street.

Understood.

In that case, it might be fun enough. Would probably benefit from a set of shocks and maybe the Mazdaspeed lowering springs.

They are nice cars.

Might want to look at the Subaru Legacy GT also although I hear some interesting stories about the longevity of the motor due to turbo oiling issues. One on this forum somewhere. Another from a guy at the local autox.

Useful thread - I wondered how the cars did - they are rare. I only seen one at a track event and it hit the wall at Road Atlanta - not the best sample size or result.

In reply to paul:

So, it's a car that's a shock/spring combo, tires, and an aggressive alignment away from being pretty good? Most cars are factory tuned for the front end to let go at 7/10ths to save inexperienced drivers.

When you go to the track be perpared, this is not true AWD. It is FWD based untill slip so you can cook the engagement clutch at a track day with no major issues if you dont watch out. They are great cars but it was made more for the daily in mind, granted you are not far from a coilover kit away from making it very capable. With the motor as long as you have records of maintance you should have no major issues. GL and have fun with the search!

I dont know what price is being asked but 103k seems to be very high miles for MS6. We found my wife's on a Ford used car lot with 12k miles on it and we got the car last spring for $16k. Since that time we added a Corksport intake and front strut bar. I have found that like our Maxima it handles better with more air in the rear tires to help with rotation. 4lbs more! I thought about buying the car for myself but didnt like the turbo lag in stock form. It is Debbie's DD and she enjoys the power and comfort of the car. I would look at the Corksport catalog to get ideas for investment and development.

Also check out StreetUnit. They've got a giant pile of parts for the thing. And tune for e85. These things like corn fed.... though you will want to upgrade the CDFP.

I've drooled for a MS6 for years. This company makes a lot of stuff for them:

CP-E

Ooooh totally forgot about CP-E, and nearly the entire intake side of my car is theirs. great products.

Ive got one. I have had it to the track once and I have autocrossed it. I have not done many mods to it, I added some camber adjustable ball joints to the front end so I can get a little negative camber and I added a stiffer rear sway bar, and a new rear differential mount.

The comments about the rear end are on target. The differential mounts are what fails. I had it happen twice on my car before I purchased a beefy aftermarket replacement from turbine tech. The installation of this and the rear sway bar happened at the same time, and it was a bitch of a job. the stock routing of the sway bar routes it up and over the rear differential.

I have not had any trouble with the engine, though I have left it stock. I love the power and teh boooost. It seems to surprise quite a lot of people who don't know what the car is. If I weren't so lazy I would take off the mazdaspeed6 badging and replace it with mazda6 badging.

The car feels more at home on a track then on a autoX course. even with the sways and the camber it still tends to push a lot on the autoX course though it feels prety nice at track speeds.

You are at the mercy of the computer controlled center differential. Sometimes the diff would shift the power to where you wanted it and the car would feel great, other times it wouldn't and the car didn't feel great. I wish there was a way to get in there and reprogram the computer, I think it would really wake up the car.

The car also has traction and stability control. Which can be turned off with a single switch. The traction control is a real kill joy, and I don't understand why an AWD car would have it. The stability control is a bit more interesting, it has anti oversteer and anti-understeer circuits. I have felt the anti understeer circuit kick in a grand total of one time in my entire ownership experience. I was a cool feeling, again I wish I could get that reprogrammed to kick in more often and with less interference from the traction control.

Overall its been a pretty good car. Though its days in my garage are numbered. It cant beat my miata for the "fun to drive" factor (the speed6 would win if I lived in a place with fewer curvy roads). Its been serving as my wifes car for the last year. My wife gets about 24mpg in the car, being a lead foot I would average 20mpg.

skruffy, did you get a chance to go look at the MS6? What did you think? I'm looking at them too for a DD.

Has anyone driven both the 2005+ Legacy 2.5GT and Mazdaspeed6 and can give a comparison of the two?

FWIW, every comparison of the two I've read has said that the Leg is a bit quicker in a straight line but the MS6 handles rings around it. it's a Mazda so that's about par for the course.

we had a guy locally who autoXed his in Stock class. it seemed to do OK but ate up tires even with the DW suspension.

mndsm wrote: Also check out StreetUnit. They've got a giant pile of parts for the thing. And tune for e85. These things like corn fed.... though you will want to upgrade the CDFP.

The DISI cars are NOT designed for E85, and some people have had injector seals get eaten up that was blamed on higher-than-its-supposed-to-be e10 fuel. the cam driven fuel pump can be hit or miss. the one in my MS3 was a good one, but some of them have trouble keeping up once you put an intake and exhaust on. i had the cobb intake and a cp-e downpipe and solid pressures across the range.

there is a decent amount of aftermarket support, and you can change pretty much anything in the ECU with cobb's accessport and AccessTuner Race software.

the turbos can be a weak point but a re-built and re-worked turbo can be had for around 500 bucks that will be more robust and responsive than stock.

for decent info on the mazdaspeeds and a lot of DISI engine tech, check out mazdaspeedforums.org

In reply to jeffmx5:

I never looked at it. It was raining all last week, and I exchanged a few emails with the internet sales guy and his offer on my trade was laughable at best. I've had bad experiences with that dealer before so I wasn't surprised.