What would you be looking for (other than free)? I'm looking for solid input on how to make our club's events better, and frankly, easier to sell. What do you like and dislike in a track event?
What would you be looking for (other than free)? I'm looking for solid input on how to make our club's events better, and frankly, easier to sell. What do you like and dislike in a track event?
What Club???
I dislike instructors who don't have headsets. It's like I have 200+ lbs of ballast that doesn't bring anything to the table while I'm on track.
One thing that NASA does really well (Northern California chapter anyway), is be on time. Their sessions are timed to the minute, whereas every SCCA event I've attended is loosey goosey on schedule. I prefer the Swiss version.
Don't just separate the cars by driver experience, separate them by weight. Miatas and Corvettes should not be on the same track at the same time.
I'm sort of kidding on that last bit but... I'll instruct anywhere, I'll pay to play on an open track.
I don't see anything wrong with Miatas and Corvettes sharing the track. If there's contact, weight classes aren't going to be that important. If it's a speed issue, that's where driver experience comes in.
bigwrench wrote: What Club???
Connecticut Autocross and Rally Team. Some great ideas already, keep them coming, and I'll look good at our next meeting.
ditto on the classes of cars on the track in the same group. especially HPDE 1 and 2. i havent driven one yet but i've volunteered in grid for 2 of them and on a 20 minute session the slower cars (and drivers) will get lapped. fine on day 2, but a nailbiter to watch sometimes on day 1.
i would love not to have to start at 7:30 AM. some people may love the morning but for the rest of the world it is dangerous to have to be on track (ie alert and awake) that early. NASA SE guys were talking about trying to boost membership in the younger crowd and that is suggestion #1. especially in the summer when daylight lasts past 5:30 PM. Let the time trialers and race qualifying go on in the AM.
car39 wrote:bigwrench wrote: What Club???Connecticut Autocross and Rally Team. Some great ideas already, keep them coming, and I'll look good at our next meeting.
Oh, in that case: More events at Monticello. And forget the time trial portion and just add more track time.
I have my own timer and I don't need any more plaques or beer mugs. I do need more track time.
Some tracks are subject to noise rules and can only run certian hours. Waterford Hills can't start before 10am. Lunch truck is a good suggestion, and you can't have too many porto-jons. I 'd like to see looser rules for passengers. I often have a friend or family member who would like to ride for a session, but has no interest in driving. Most clubs say no.
Pay attention to your communication - esp. to us n00bs. We're at sensory overload so stuff needs to be clear, concise and on point. Pay attention to the service you provide - people are paying for the experience - make sure they get their money's worth - I sorta have a low tolerance for a mismatch between expectations and experience (unless way better than expected). Basically, it's your reputation, so what do you want people to think about your event? What do have to do to put on that kind of program? btw - good move on asking - already a good sign. Oh and read the post "how not to be an hpde instructor" - don't have any of those douchenozzles around.
It would be nice if there were a way to cater to the lower horsepower crowd. I have a friend who runs more vintage cars; the fastest, most modern thing he owns is a Miata. Most track days turn him off because he's endlessly doing point-bys to Evos and Porsches. I don't know if there's a market for a run group like that, but it may be worth considering even occasionally.
Let me add that CART has a long history of hosting outstanding events.
I have run several CART events, I really don't see a need for improvement. Just keep doing what you are doing.
Corvettes get in the way of Miata's which get in the way of ZX2SR's
ddavidv wrote: It would be nice if there were a way to cater to the lower horsepower crowd. I have a friend who runs more vintage cars; the fastest, most modern thing he owns is a Miata. Most track days turn him off because he's endlessly doing point-bys to Evos and Porsches. I don't know if there's a market for a run group like that, but it may be worth considering even occasionally.
X2. I've been tossing around the idea of building a vintage Volvo track car. Thing is, I doubt that it'll be quicker than the slowest Miatas, and I'd be concerned with an EVO late-braking right up my keester.
On a related note: I saw a nasty crash at a motorcycle race once in just such a manner. The organizers ran small bore vintage bikes with late-model V-twins. A friend grabbed her brakes on her 250 Aremachi, and got nailed by a big twin who was conditioned to expect a much later braking point.
My concern regarding Miatas and Corvettes (or worse, Vipers) comes into play at a track like New Hampshire Motor Speedway.
A Miata at nearly any point on the straight falls victim to the enormous closing speed of the big engined cars, who then are faced with a differential in required braking distance leading into the tight left hand turn. When you're sitting on the inside of that Miata's driver side door, your never comfortable making that left turn.
You don't want to get hit by a car that outweighs you by a thousand pounds.
I drive a Locost on the track, pretty much anything outweighs me by a thousand pounds.
I'll be at a track day at Laguna Seca in April that will have big turbo Miatas driven by desperate wanna-be racers and Spec Miatas. There's going to be some serious closing speed disparity there as well. But it works. Weight isn't the issue, there shouldn't be contact regardless of weight class and that's why driver experience is important.
People go to HPDE's for track time. Don't force me to stand around for 4 hours, do a 1 hour drivers meeting, and spend an hour in tech for an hour of track time. There had better be cars on that track all day long.
Also, no 730AM starts if first car out isn't until 1PM. When I show up at 730 to Autocross we have a hot track at 830 or 9. Be proactive about staying on schedule.
Don't price yourselves out of the water. I just got an e-mail 10 minutes ago about an HPDE getting canceled up here. It was a $250 "special event" that didn't seem very special to me at all. $250 buys me a ticket to 8 autocrosses this year or an entire set of Azenis. $100-$150 is reasonable and attainable, higher than that and your numbers will drop.
In summary, HPDE's are a lot like real estate. Track time, track time, track time.
It's not possible to run a track day for $100-150 at a lot of tracks. Heck, we have people all excited that we can offer Laguna Seca for only $250 on a weekend!
My biggest piece of advice is to ensure you have a competent team ready to handle everything. If the organizer tries to do it all, there will be too many delays, and that will frustrate everyone. It sounds, based on other posts, that your club already has that part well taken care of.
Make sure your chief orgnaizer (Clerk, whatever term you use) is friendly and accessible no matter what is going on. He or she, as the face of the event, should tour the pits, and check in with the participants (especially the newbies). He or she should always be smiling :) -- it is, after all, about having fun.
I'd also recommend having all newbies signed off by an experienced driver. That helps keep everything safe.
I would pay $250 for Laguna Seca on a weekend. I would not pay $250 for PIR on a Thursday. $175 seems to be the "going" rate this year so my numbers might have been off.
Kevin, I like the track time we get with CART. Pretty much as much time as you can handle. I think I would feel shortchanged doing track events with other clubs because we get so much time at CART. Don't change that, please.
My only complaint/criticism is communication. Sometimes mixed messages are sent, for example regarding seat belts (I remember a guy at NJMP in an Evo who was given a little grief about it), and at CM2 last year when I didn't even know timed runs were going on. Granted none counted due to the weather, I blew up my MR2, and my brother and I were sharing his BMW.
I'll try to make the meeting in March.
Geez, $250 for a weekend? Good grief, we pay ~$450 for a weekend at Road Atlanta. The BMW club does it right tho. On time, on schedule, although the class room sessions are pretty lame above the lowest experience level. I'd like more track time, less classroom time.........
I would like to echo the sentiments of the other momentum car drivers - somebody is going to get hurt, and it was almost me. The GT3 and twin turbo Corvette drivers will not stand on the brakes at 165+ to wait for the next passing zone when behind a 110 mph beater. The closing speeds are the danger here, not just driver experience (frankly it is usually instructors running super-cars in the less experienced groups who forget(?) the passing rules are more strict in these lower groups). Put the supercars in their own run group, or don't let instructors run in the lower student groups.
Pricing is always a major consideration. A large facility in the Northeast that just opened a club a few years ago can cost twice as much as a facility that has 2 major NASCAR events.
Woody's time trial comment is interesting since we eliminated a time trial last year and got a lot of grief. We are all individuals, aren't we.
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