The perspective of a Challenge judge...

Perhaps a name change is in order from Concours d'Elegance to something else, something more GRM.  The cars that do well at the Challenge concours aren't cars that would do well at a normal concours, and vice versa.  I know I wouldn't take the Insight to a normal concours, except as a conversation piece.

SVreX, we were happy with the Probe's score.  Net result of 13th overall. 

David,  another successful and winning weekend on many levels! 

In reply to Matthew Kennedy :

The Concours d'Flatulance

Matthew Kennedy said:

Perhaps a name change is in order from Concours d'Elegance to something else, something more GRM.  The cars that do well at the Challenge concours aren't cars that would do well at a normal concours, and vice versa.  I know I wouldn't take the Insight to a normal concours, except as a conversation piece.

For a short while we called a parc expose but, in the end, everyone called it the concours. 

John Welsh said:

SVreX, we were happy with the Probe's score.  Net result of 13th overall. 

David,  another successful and winning weekend on many levels! 

Totally. You were smiling all weekend. 

Jaynen said:

This thread sort of has no context for any of us who were not at the challenge. Unless there is another thread that would provide the clear context for this one. I should say the first post did and then it didn't

I don't know that I can change that. 

The Concours is a mystery to some competitors, and I just wanted to open up a conversation from a new perspective that might help some people understand it better. 

I would suggest the first context is the rules (which I am increasingly convinced some people  don't read). They were printed on the bottom of our score sheets. Every judge reviewed them between almost every competitor. 

Beyond that, I am happy to answer any question you have. 

Thanks, Paul, for the insider's view. I could have said the same thing, but I think it carries more weight coming from an independent party.

And, here, some really low-hanging concours fruit that teams can easily pick.

1: Buy, rent, borrow or somehow acquire a buffer so you can polish your paint. Bill, Barry, Pat and Sean's Chrysler 300C looked amazing. That was once-crappy paint that they buffed to a high gloss. Then they camouflaged a dent or two with some vinyl. That extra effort showed. 

2: At least wash/clean the car. More than one car looked like it hadn't been washed in a while. At least remove the greasy fingerprints from the paint. 

3: Clean under the hood. Some time plus the cleaner product of your choice can go far. Yeah, some cars were just dirty here--like caked-up grease on the radiator core support, really dirty rubber, etc. As detail master Tim McNair always tells us, create definition: Make your blacks black, make your chrome shine, and make your colors vibrant. Some APC (all-purpose cleaner), vinyl treatment and a paint cleaner can go far. At the first Challenge, Jeremy presented an engine compartment that just wowed our judges--including one who regularly shows cars at Amelia. If I remember correctly, all he used was Armor All and some elbow grease. 

4: Have a story and effectively tell it to the judges. Just what makes your build so darn special? 

David S. Wallens said:

Alfadriver, why not do a John Welsh and come with the goal of winning the party? The Challenge, at least to me, has become like Solo Nats: Yeah, it centers around a competition, but the socializing is what puts it over the top. And if you don't win, no one is going to shame you. 

Mostly because I'm more competitive than social.  

SVreX said:

In reply to alfadriver :

I understand. 

Let me put it this way... you have often said you have considered bringing a nice CSP or ESP car.  I hope you do. If well executed, it would have earned a LOT of Concours points, and probably beaten the Insight. 

Last year I had a fully prepped FSP car, got 3rd in the autocross and in my opinion got a bad concours score, I didnt care because my fellow competitors voted for my car and that was awesome. My FSP tercel got the same score as my corolla this year and basically all I did to that car was remove the springs. I think I will truly never grasp the concours part of this event but Im gonna keep trying and never take 12 points. 

In reply to David S. Wallens :

I'll add one more thing to your list...

Consider the undercarriage.  It's impressive when someone puts the car on jacks and removes the wheels to show the brake detail, or puts mirrors on the floor so you can see the bottom. 

There WERE some cars there which could have done this. Yes I looked, and yes a couple undercarriages were beautiful. Too bad no one showed them off. 

So, what could we have done better with the amc? Im rolling things around in my brain for next year.

In reply to echoechoecho :

Don't compare scores year to year. They are meaningless. Different judges, different competition, different rules. 

Heck, might have even been something different for breakfast!

If done well, hopefully the scores are a fair comparison between cars sitting there on a particular day, but they are definitely not more than that. 

In reply to Dusterbd13 :

Talk to Mazduece. I already emailed him. 

I just sent the info to Duster. Big public thanks for taking the time to help us learn how to do things better. Whoever is the guest judge after you has some big shoes to fill.

Former winner here...

I know things have changed a lot since I learned to paint a car for the Challenge in 2002. The idea of the concours judging back then was to encourage people not to bring something that looked like it had been dragged from a barn and put together with duct tape and clotheshangers. When most teams were just washing their cars or hitting them with spray bombs we painted ours inside and out and even the underside. Oh, there was orange peel and plenty of other flaws but it looked clean and professional.

I wasn't there and I can only go by what I saw in the photos I've seen of the Insight but that thing...let's just say it didn't strike me as magazine cover material.

In its defense it apparently worked very well. Ours didn't. A serious lack of testing coupled with a rain-soaked autocross and a clutch that couldn't handle boost conspired against us. Thanks only to our attention to detail in the cosmetics did we eek out our win that year (that, and an oddity in the concours scoring that gave it more weight which was subsequently fixed). The reason we won, however, is we read the rules. Studied them, looked for loopholes or advantages and then took them.

You know, like any racing team.

I don't want to diminish anyone's efforts. Plenty of people accused us of being all flash. But 15 years later I would hope the winning car would be a even mix/entire 'package'. (I also will add you couldn't give me a judge's job)

I think my problem is I want the challenge to be more serious. I will not wear a costume or put on a big show to distract the judges from my car(that stuff doesn't even make the magazine). I want to be judge based on my car, my ideas, and my performance.

In reply to echoechoecho :

I think that is fine. The vast majority of people did not wear clown suits. 

How are we gonna know your ideas if you don't tell us?  Figure out a good way to do it. 

The 2015 Concours I put 2 laptops on the roof of the car running PowerPoint presentations of the car. No clown suit. 

You said your car was an FSP car. Believe it or not, I wouldn't know what that means, or what you went through to get it there. Tell your story. 

Don't confuse telling your story with making up a story, or doing a performance. 

Concours.....go anywhere on this planet and you'll see fit'n finish par excellance....this venue should be no different....holycrap!!!! look at the STRENGTH of the editorial staff......yeah i know y'all excluded yourselves from this process, but a gutted interior is just that............yes I didn't bring anything to the 'SHOW ', but if I had it woulda had door panels (DOOR PANELS!!!!) for cryin'out loud............ 

echoechoecho said:

I think my problem is I want the challenge to be more serious. I will not wear a costume or put on a big show to distract the judges from my car(that stuff doesn't even make the magazine). I want to be judge based on my car, my ideas, and my performance.

That's what 80% of the participants do. None of the college teams did a big show, they did a professional presentation. Calvin Nelson showed you what he did to get where we was, which was blazingly fast. Yes, John threatened to shove a finger where the sun don't and Fred was driving the Mystery Machine, but those were the exception, not the rule. The teams that did best showed their work, and this makes sense because this is first and formost an event that generates content for our favorite magazine. The judges don't have time to look over every car and decide what should be in the magazine, they rely on the competitors to show them, and the easiest way to ensure that happens is to add it to the competition. If they labeled it "show us why we should put your car in the magazine" I think it would be more accurate. Let's be honest, if you do a VERY good job at the concourse then the article practicaly writes itself, and don't we all want someone else to do our jobs for us?

I'm sorry i've started this response three times now and it is still UGLY good night y'all

Let's look at presentation for a minute...

From the rules:

“Presentation” covers things like originality, theme, showmanship, team spirit, moxie, chutzpah, backstory and anything else that falls under the heading of “je ne sais quoi.”

I have no idea why so many people think this means you have to sing a song or ride a pony. 

Originality? Backstory?  These have EVERYTHING to do with the car and NOTHING to do with a circus performance. Pete Gossett told us about the woman he bought the car from and her son that passed away. Made us understand why this was important to him. 

If ALL you care about is a hunk of metal, you are at the wrong event. It's about the editorial content- they are trying to write a magazine. 

Moxie?  Chutzpah?  The Smith team had both in spades. Never did anything weird. 

Team spirit?  Hang with the turbo dodge guys for a while... OK, sometimes those guys will put on a cop uniform or paint their car like a box of cornflakes, but it's ALWAYS  about the car. And let's face it- they can whoop most of us on any track. 

Most teams that scored well for presentation simply told us cleanly about their car.  Some actually rehearsed their presentation (it helped a lot).

You can't  expect a judge who has never been to the event, never heard of you, never read the forum to be impressed when you stick a hunk of metal in front of them. They won't know if you don't tell them. Same thing for the readers. 

So, tell them you traded a bicycle for it, but ALSO tell them how hard it is to build an FSP car, what an FSP car is, and how many hours you worked at getting it to the point it is now. 

Im not big on offers for free alien probes. 

The outsiders perspective on the whole Challenge is any of you who participated are heroes and rockstars to most of us who read these forums because you all did stuff we would not dare to think let alone act on. And it seems like the Challenge is just an excuse for a nice big social event focused on the crazy that is somewhat unique to these forums.

I asked one question of a lot of competitors...

"What are your plans for the future with this car?"

Some intended to bring them back. Some intended to drive them home. Some intended to make them a dedicated drag racer. Some wanted to lift the budget restrictions and take them to the next level.  Several wanted them to be part of building a program at their school, or raising funds for their cause  

The question helped me understand their vision and direction. 

I have usually just hacked up cars, and make them kinda worthless for their post-Challenge life. I'm not doing it again- that's why my next car will take a while to build. 

Like I said I know the concourse is my weakest part of the challenge and im going to keep trying. I love this event, you guys/gals are all awesome. whats great about this event is its different for everybody each team has there own goals to fill under the budget. I feel the judging misses that. this year half my time with the judges was taken up talking about my previous challenge cars(which the grm staff asked about I did not bring it up) and I feel like I didnt have enough time to explain my goal and my idea to reach it. this year I was alone with almost no help so I made my goal small yet still innovative I hope, actually Im happy with my score this year, I guess im still sour about last years score.  

2018 will be a big year for me and Im gonna really prepare for the concourse portion.

David S. Wallens said:

For a short while we called a parc expose but, in the end, everyone called it the concours. 

Parc Explosé!