The size of things.

I was headed home yesterday afternoon and came up behind an old car. My first thought was how small it looked compared to all the modern vehicles around it. 

The old car in question was a Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham. This is a car that is 19' long. When I was a kid it was one of the biggest sedans you could buy short of a limo. 

I used to complain about the demise of the full-size car but with mid-size now being almost 200" they aren't much smaller than the Fleetwood. Throw an interstate full of SUVs and trucks into the mix and modern cars make it look surprisingly small. 

One of the things I have always found interesting/odd is the fact that cars always seem to get bigger and then companies have to come up with a new model for their small car.  

You don't have to tell me. I drive a subcompact, have for years, and it drives me nuts how I can no longer see what's going on ahead of me. Not only are late model vehicles massive, but everybody tints their rear window so dark you can't see through it. And they're wide, too. Trying to use all the lane to see past them is not always possible any more.

I figured out years ago, people (in general) will buy the biggest vehicle they can afford to drive.

Aaron_King said:

One of the things I have always found interesting/odd is the fact that cars always seem to get bigger and then companies have to come up with a new model for their small car.  

Same. My e30 is smaller than a modern 1 series. An '80 civic is smaller than a modern honda city. Same with an '80 golf and modern polo. I'm not upset at all, it's just how cars seem to evolve to include more options/features. It's interesting.

Peabody said:

I figured out years ago, people (in general) will buy the biggest vehicle they can afford to drive.

And why wouldn't you want to?  When I get an an F150 that does 20+ MPG, has more room and features than almost any luxury car, still fits in a standard garage, fits 4 people comfortably, 5 reasonably comfortably, and 6 in a pinch, extremely safe body-on-frame construction, and has 400+ horsepower, its kind of a no-brainer.  Yeah I know "driving dynamics blah blah blah" but man is it a nice place to spend time when you are going A to B which is 99% of the use of any car.

Ive done my time in compacts and subcompacts and have no desire to have another one.   

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

Because driving a big vehicle is wasteful, and not particularly fun.

Aaron_King said:

One of the things I have always found interesting/odd is the fact that cars always seem to get bigger and then companies have to come up with a new model for their small car.  

That's absolutely NOT an accident.

That way, the marketing droids get to tout each model's new generation as "bigger and better" than the previous one.  So each new model gets "improved" over multiple generations, all the while building brand recognition, until it eventually tops out.  Then it either stays there, if it is a best seller, or it gets phased out and replaced with the next new model coming up from below.

I made a similar-ish observation when I drove by a restomodded early 80's Monte Carlo today...  First I was like 'woah, looks awesome!', and then as I got closer, it went to 'woah, that car is small!'.  80's full-sizes used to be so big to me back in the day...

Racebrick said:

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

Because driving a big vehicle is wasteful, and not particularly fun.

I don't agree with that. While I like small vehicles, I would not be willing to daily drive a subcompact. The Touareg is a nice compromise even though it's one of those hateful SUVs that everyone bitches about. With pretty decent handling, 20-30 mpg fuel economy, 300+ hp, and almost 500 lb-ft of torque, it is a hoot to drive. 

I parked my XJ next to a Renegade. The renegade is supposed to be the next smaller market segment but is bigger in every dimension and heavier than the XJ. That honestly surprised me.

My 1979 S Class is only a few inches longer, although shorter and narrower, than a modern C Class.

Don't get me started on the week I spent driving a Leyland Mini....

This was fun: our 1975 Pontiac Catalina Safari.

Interestingly enough my 72 Datsun 1200 was meant as a car for a young family of four. It's smaller than a NA Miata; the Miata is 5" longer and 10" wider.

These things are cyclical; Look at a Model T or A then compare those to cars from the 40-60s. The fuel crunch ushered in smaller cars.

Flash forward to today and technology had created large cars that get decent fuel mileage..................people like big / bigger cars because they ride nice and they are quiet inside.

My 94 Toyota pickup looks like it would fit underneath most current full sized pickups.  I was walking by a new Silverado recently and realized that the top of the bed came to my shoulder.  I'm 6' 3".  How on earth could you load anything into that?  Oh that's right, you don't.  90% of them are driving around empty with a pristine bed.

My brother and I were both over 6' as teenagers yet somehow managed to ride in the back of my parent's 1985 Jetta. I don't get the obsession with huge vehicles.  I have a 2008 Sequoia to haul 5-6 clients off-road.  It's not fun to drive something so big even if it is the fastest accelerating vehicle that I own.

People are also getting bigger too.

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

Depends on your commute but parallel parking downtown or driving through narrow streets are annoying in a big car, then again some people think door dings and bumping into the cars around them are "normal wear and tear."

I'm amazed when I see how large a Civic has become.  The Si and Type R's are great cars, but damn they're big...just like most everything.

 

In reply to 93gsxturbo :

Depends on your commute but parallel parking downtown or driving through narrow streets are annoying in a big car, then again some people think door dings and bumping into the cars around them are "normal wear and tear."

 

I don't really understand this part. I drive a suburban, which is comically large, in lower Manhattan and parallel park several times a day. It's never been that difficult to do, especially now that there's electronics monitoring everything. I can't think of a street that can't accommodate a fire truck or garbage truck, so the largest of cars should fit as well. 

One oft overlooked reason that that any given segment (interior volume) of car has continued to grow physically larger, is that building safer structures with roughly the same amount of material inherently means the structural volume increases as well.

We're all so differing of opinion, because I really enjoy driving big vehicles. Put me in a 35000lbs firetruck and I am a happy camper. Hustling an SUV through twisty roads? Perfect.

parker said:

My 94 Toyota pickup looks like it would fit underneath most current full sized pickups.  I was walking by a new Silverado recently and realized that the top of the bed came to my shoulder.  I'm 6' 3".  How on earth could you load anything into that?  Oh that's right, you don't.  90% of them are driving around empty with a pristine bed. 

You're right, new trucks are amazing in every way except for actually being able to use the bed.  You can't stand beside a new truck and reach anything sitting on the floor of the bed, unless you're Shaq-sized.  It's a stretch to get anything out of a truck box if it's got one.   My wife thinks i'm crazy, but i'd rather just keep patching on my 91 Silverado (GMT400) than drop 50K on a new truck. 

Fiat, Mini? 
My son had a Mercedes 300TE which I thought was a big car.  Watching that thing at 80 mph in traffic, it looks like a Fairmont!

Guys at our soaring club buy gliders from Germany.  One little nick or ding and it fails Inspection.  They trade up, we buy them, ship to Rhode Island for $3k; then go through the FAA stuff and make a quick $5k on the flip.  Only until others figure it out.  Point is, 'Mericans are bigger, some ships are just too small.  Cars too?

93gsxturbo said:

Peabody said:

I figured out years ago, people (in general) will buy the biggest vehicle they can afford to drive.

And why wouldn't you want to? 

My subcompact cost pennies on the dollar compared to your F150 and goes at least twice the distance on a given amount of fuel. Frugality aside, that's just a waste. And since I have little to no family, and certainly no friends, I don't need the seats, and you probably don't most of the time either. My car doesn't even have rear seats any more, it's become a 2 seater hatchback, or sedan delivery as they used to call it. It's very practical. I've never owned a full size truck but have driven many, and as I am a slow car fast kind of guy, it's not something that fits in my program.

I'm not sure why people act that way, I was really just mentioning that over the years, and as vehicles became more efficient, I noticed that people were not enjoying the cost savings associated with that efficiency, but trading it instead for size.

New Ranger is bigger than my old C-10.

I've never bought into the big vehicle thing, and I think like many things in modern society that would take us into politics so I wont go there, vehicle size is approaching a tipping point where something has to be done.  This country will never accept government mandates for size or weight, but perhaps insurance companies car start to do something about it?  The two biggest issues I see aren't necessarily the overall footprint of vehicles, although it is a huge issue and should be addressed. No, the two biggest are :

1. Height, mainly full size trucks and SUV's.  It's nuts, when 7-8-9 year old kids are completely invisible to the driver even when they are not directly in front of the vehicle.
2. Weigh, and funnily enough one of the biggest offenders here is electric vehicles.  No, I'm not anti electric, they offer massive benefits in many ways, but when things like the electric Hummer have a battery pack that weighs more than a turn of the century hatchback, that's a serious problem from safety and resources.

I know this wont be popular with many, but they are my thoughts. YMMV

When looking at any number of cars for sale, the first thing I do is go look up the length and weight. Over 3000# makes it a "No". The length is just to see how much excess length there is beyond the length of my MINI. The mid-size Pontiac 6000 we bought when the first baby showed up was under 3000# and 189 inches , and compares to new compacts in weight. I don't need that these days as 99% of my driving is me alone. The MINI is perfectly comfortable for long trips, I've done 1100 mile days in it. I also have a 4 year old Canyon that has yet to get to 20,000 miles. It's a decent highway cruiser when there's a need more than two of us going somewhere, but I prefer the MINI for long trips. The GMC is there for the occasional truck usage. Each to his own.

ConiglioRampante said:

I'm amazed when I see how large a Civic has become.  The Si and Type R's are great cars, but damn they're big...just like most everything.

If you compare the new Si to the Pontiac 6000 (1983) that I mention in my other post, they are very close in size and weight. The Pontiac was a mid-size and the Honda is a compact. I'll still take the Civic if someone would like to donate one to me though. Nice car.