There's a Fiat 124 Spider on my lift

wvumtnbkr wrote: Is the bump in the tunnel for rhd versions?

Probably not, as the exhaust does not change sides.

I have nothing to add to the thread other than when I read the Multi-Air logo on the engine cover, I thought it said "Mullet Hair" for a second.

We need a head to head comparison with the FM / FS stuff on... which does autocross better? :) I'm liking the Fiat more with the suspension and wheels. Any chance you can put a 10mm spacer on the rear wheels and show us that? I think it needs just a bit more spacing out of the rear to fill those curved fenders? That will be the end of my stance comments.

I might give that a try the next time the wheels are off. I haven't investigated to see just how much we can stuff under the fenders yet. Those rears do look roomy in the pictures.

Keith Tanner wrote:

It's probably just me and the meaner looking Miata next to it, but the first picture makes it look hunkered and aggressive (not quite as much as the Miata), where the second picture looks like it's saying, "Hey bud, let's go play."

Do you have a sticker kit planned for it? With the more classic looking lines of the Fiat, I'm afraid anything would take away from that.

-Rob

What up with the Miata having the cat under the car in the bulge and the Fiat not having one. Hidden in the downpipe?

The Fiat looks a lot like the NB to me.

Rob - The first picture has the car angled down a bit - they're actually on a bit of a slope towards the camera. The second is taken from a much lower viewpoint and at a different angle. That changes the shape of the headlights, which is probably why you're getting different "expressions" on the face. I'm still learning how to shoot this creature, it's actually really easy to make it look dumpy. It does not like the wide lens.

I have something I want to try for livery. I always wait until I have the car on hand, then spend a bunch of time with tape finding out what the car wants. That's how the ND stripes happened. It's not going to happen this week, but I think you'll enjoy it when it does. White with gold wheels is part of the plan, and I'm going to stick with a vintage style instead of going hyper-modern like the spiky ND.

I haven't been in to the exhaust system much, but the other guys were saying there was only one cat. It'll be right off the turbo, it's hard to get them to light off fast enough with that big heat sink on the exhaust manifold.

Boost_Crazy wrote: The Fiat looks a lot like the NB to me.

It doesn't come across that way in person. It looks more like the NB than any other Miata, but it doesn't look that much like a Miata. I saw some camo'd mules months ago and immediately pegged the Miata DNA, but without the camo it's its own car.

Thinking about it, the shape of the Fiat makes it look bigger than the ND even though it isn't.

There's a lot more volume in the nose and IIRC it's longer as well. The Miata is styled as if it's stretched over the mechanical bits, the Fiat is more voluptuous.

You know.

...Except that the Miata is the more curvaceous of the two, leaving the Fiata looking slab sided by comparison.

Boost_Crazy wrote: The Fiat looks a lot like the NB to me.

My first thoughts too, seeing the side-by-side pic.

Thanks for posting the underside photo, Kieth. I suspected the driver's side bumpout was unused by Fiat and now that's confirmed. It's strange there is still a heat shield there-it must have an eleventh hour change. It also appears Fiat added an access panel to the engine under panel. Prolly for oil changes. Can the oil filter be accessed from the topside?

Keith Tanner wrote: We had removed the plate under the oil pan and the nose before taking the Miata pictures. They look pretty much identical in the nose. Some mysteries remain. Why the big cavity in the tunnel? On the Miata, it's used for the cat on one side. But neither chassis uses the space on the other side. Why do both cars have mounting tabs for a heatshield (?) under the cat, but neither car uses it?

It's interesting that the Miata uses that location for a second cat- it's a long way away (relatively speaking).

But my other question- as it's hard to see- on the exhaust side, you can see the provisions in the body that allow the exhaust to pass from the engine compartment to under the car. Since the other side doesn't have heat shields there, it's hard to see- but is there similar space?

If there is, it kind of suggests that the platform was given space for a V engine.

On the other hand if there isn't- can someone educate me on how roatary exhaust flows out of the engine compartment? I don't seem to recall that it's on one side or the other- but more down.

To me, it's appears more to be for exhaust flow area.

Maybe somebody with design authority at Mazda is so big a fan of the FM V8 swaps, that they wanted to make life a little easier for FM...That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

Chas_H wrote: It also appears Fiat added an access panel to the engine under panel. Prolly for oil changes. Can the oil filter be accessed from the topside?

Both cars have the same shield under the oil pan and undertray in the nose - we just removed them before taking the Miata picture. The oil filter on the Miata is on the pan, the one on the Fiat is...at yet unknown.

Alfa, the fuel and brake lines enter the engine bay through the driver's side. If you put an exhaust there, you have some pretty close quarters. But we've taken advantage of the Mystery Chasm on the V8 car, so we really appreciate it.

Interestingly, the Fiat's exhaust ports are flipped relative to the Miatas. The exhaust pipe runs between the pan and the bellhousing to get over to the passenger side, as that's the side that has room in the tunnel.

Driven5 wrote: Maybe somebody with design authority at Mazda is so big a fan of the FM V8 swaps, that they wanted to make life a little easier for FM...That's my story, and I'm sticking to it.

Officially, there is serious disapproval. On an individual level, I think our cars are very much appreciated I'm not sure they're THAT much appreciated though...

alfadriver wrote: On the other hand if there isn't- can someone educate me on how roatary exhaust flows out of the engine compartment? I don't seem to recall that it's on one side or the other- but more down.

On the current rotaries the exhaust is low down (as you mentioned) and on the passenger side. However I do have a vague recollection of a recent patent application from Mazda for an updated rotary that puts the exhaust in a different location. Of course I don't have a link handy right now and probably should go to work really soon...

Keith Tanner wrote: Officially, there is serious disapproval.

Apparently they're so "officially" disapproving, that they're sending you an RF as punishment.

Keith Tanner wrote: Interestingly, the Fiat's exhaust ports are flipped relative to the Miatas. The exhaust pipe runs between the pan and the bellhousing to get over to the passenger side, as that's the side that has room in the tunnel.

Ok, so that is a clear indicator that the bulge isn't for a V engine. If it were, it would have been the desired path for Fiat to run their exhaust.

You are right- that is very interesting. And makes me want to go to the dealer and see how they plumed it (and check with the EPA on it's cert level). That's some interesting catalyst packaging.

In order for the Fiat exhaust to run down the other side of the tunnel, they'd have to redesign the power plant frame and the rear subframe. It would be an expensive redesign.

The cert level is on the underhood sticker, is it not? "Plumed it"?

As for Mazda's official disapproval - they are fine with our four cylinder shenanigans. It's big loud pushrod Chevys that are frowned upon. Okay, Mazda, give me an alternative! 20 year old turbo rotary grenades don't count.

Keith Tanner wrote:

Chas_H wrote: It also appears Fiat added an access panel to the engine under panel. Prolly for oil changes. Can the oil filter be accessed from the topside?

Both cars have the same shield under the oil pan and undertray in the nose - we just removed them before taking the Miata picture. The oil filter on the Miata is on the pan, the one on the Fiat is...at yet unknown. Alfa, the fuel and brake lines enter the engine bay through the driver's side. If you put an exhaust there, you have some pretty close quarters. But we've taken advantage of the Mystery Chasm on the V8 car, so we really appreciate it. Interestingly, the Fiat's exhaust ports are flipped relative to the Miatas. The exhaust pipe runs between the pan and the bellhousing to get over to the passenger side, as that's the side that has room in the tunnel.

Both have an undershield; but it is not the same for both cars, as Fiat has an access panel and the Miata does not. At least my ND doesn't. After checking some photos it does appear the Fiat oil filter is accessible from the top, which explains the added access panel on the Fiat under pan shield. The orientation of the exhaust ports has been known since Fiat announced it was selling a new model of 124.

The newer grenades also seem to be configured to run the exhaust on the passenger side (well, on LHD vehicles anyway).

Speaking of four cylinder shenanigans, I assume you're working on something there, too? Having a little more grunt in the ND without shelling out $50k would be nice. Well, once the warranty is up.

Keith Tanner wrote: Okay, Mazda, give me an alternative! 20 year old turbo rotary grenades don't count.

What about the V6 from the Giulia Quadrifoglio?

-Rob