There's a Fiat 124 Spider on my lift

BoxheadTim wrote: Speaking of four cylinder shenanigans, I assume you're working on something there, too? Having a little more grunt in the ND without shelling out $50k would be nice. Well, once the warranty is up.

"Once the warranty is up" is the reason you haven't seen any real power adders from us on the ND. Very few people request big power gains on new cars, and the tune/illegal exhaust route is full of claims that are difficult for us to verify. We'll have some good options by the time your warranty is up.

Keith Tanner wrote: In order for the Fiat exhaust to run down the other side of the tunnel, they'd have to redesign the power plant frame and the rear subframe. It would be an expensive redesign.

The NC had the PPF on the opposite side, right? Presumably that was to accommodate sharing that kind of stuff with the Rx8?

Keith Tanner wrote: We did take advantage of the Mysterious Chasm when running the V8 exhaust, I will admit. New shocks, springs, sways and shoes! Tony gets dressed to impress.

Wow. That's a huge difference in the appearance. It's gone from " grotesquely hideous" to "kinda cool" in one fell swoop. Nice job. I can't help but think the same hardware would look even better if you had started with a ND sport but regardless it's a huge improvement. What are your plans for the bodywork, some sort of tricolore striping? In it's current form I get sort of a Miami Vice coke dealer vibe. Must be Italian cars all in white.

Maybe the mystery chasm is to accommodate packaging the rather different 1.8 turbo from the 124 Rally?

The ND is on the exact same hardware other than shock specification in that pic.

We'll see what happens with the permanent livery. I've got a couple of levels in mind, we'll see what the potential market responds to. I'll start sketching it out next week.

pointofdeparture wrote: Maybe the mystery chasm is to accommodate packaging the rather different 1.8 turbo from the 124 Rally?

Interesting idea. Maybe - but the exhaust still has to run down the other side of the tunnel. Actually, I'm finding the visible seam welding and burly shock tower brace interesting in that shot.

Yeah, it's an interesting specimen no doubt. Fiat claims they will be built to order as competition cars for 150k Euros each but they have yet to make good on that promise. It sure would be interesting to see a street variant if they could make it meet emissions standards...I wonder what the engine came from.

In reply to Keith Tanner:

The multi-air engine already has an oil pan with gully for the exhaust pipe from its transverse mounting in the 500.

alfadriver wrote: On the other hand if there isn't- can someone educate me on how roatary exhaust flows out of the engine compartment? I don't seem to recall that it's on one side or the other- but more down. To me, it's appears more to be for exhaust flow area.

Likewise.

Rotary exhaust has traditionally been on the right side, but the new engine that Mazda has been working on is "upside down" with the exhaust on the top left.

Hmm...

Keith Tanner wrote: Very few people request big power gains on new cars

Proof that you don't work on Corvettes or Camaros or Mustangs.

Chas_H wrote: In reply to Keith Tanner: The multi-air engine already has an oil pan with gully for the exhaust pipe from its transverse mounting in the 500.

Hopefully they redesigned the oil pan for longitudinal use. It's still what I would consider a less than optimal choice, but Mazda won that particular packaging battle.

Knurled wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: Very few people request big power gains on new cars

Proof that you don't work on Corvettes or Camaros or Mustangs.

Good point. I wonder if Mustang tuners hear the "as soon as my warranty is up" story as much as we do?

Keith Tanner wrote:

Knurled wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: Very few people request big power gains on new cars

Proof that you don't work on Corvettes or Camaros or Mustangs.

Good point. I wonder if Mustang tuners hear the "as soon as my warranty is up" story as much as we do?

I suspect it's a lot easier to do seemingly-worthwhile power upgrades on a Mustang without totally trashing the warranty than it is on a Miata. :)

In reply to Keith Tanner:

no they just hear, "is this detectable by the dealership?"

mblommel wrote: In it's current form I get sort of a Miami Vice coke dealer vibe.

Interesting...I get more of an aviator sunglasses, leather driving gloves, and white silk scarf vibe from it.

Keith Tanner wrote:

Knurled wrote:

Keith Tanner wrote: Very few people request big power gains on new cars

Proof that you don't work on Corvettes or Camaros or Mustangs.

Good point. I wonder if Mustang tuners hear the "as soon as my warranty is up" story as much as we do?

I dunno, but we had a sub-10k GT500 in the building today that already had many thousands of dollars in upgrades (at a different shop, before he moved here) and I've personally put a cam and headers on a Camaro that hadn't even had its first oil change yet. We trade work/knowledge with a performance-only shop and any time you go down there, half the cars in the building are less than a year old.

Lots of people see 400-500hp as a starting point, not "good enough". These are, of course, not the people who would think about buying a Miata. They'd buy a Hellcat, then look for a shop that can upgrade the power.

500+ hp in 2500 lbs vs 4000 lbs, though

I will say this.. White is not the proper colour for the 124. I would have preferred the blue or the red

You'll find out why we went white later. Blue only comes in the automatic launch edition, red is more common but...more common. In person, I think it suits the car.

The hood may look longer, but it's barely any longer, and nothing like, say, a 240Z or Jag XKE, both icons of sports car styling.

The problem I have with the Miata is that the front AND rear look punched in, like it's been in an accident and got squooshed. Looking at the above picture of the Miata, the apogee (top of arc) of the front fender curve is well behind the front wheel centerline and then severely angle downward before it gets to the wheel, while the Fiat has a more classic arch that has it's apogee barely behind the front wheel centerline and gently arcs over the wheel and down to the admittedly larger headlights. And then the side bodyline on the Fiat that arches up the door and over the rear wheel gives it much more classic "hips." And at the rear the Fiat tapers less, giving more trunk space with barely any more overhang, while the Miata is stubby and angles in from the sides much more severely.

It's exactly that look -- body work stretched as tightly as possible over the hard points -- that to me says 'purposeful' and 'athletic' and is partly why I prefer the styling of the the Mazda over the Fiat.

Except for the tail lights. The tail lights on the new MX-5 look like they couldn't decide between two different styles so they went with both.

In reply to Chris_V:

Its that front apogee that really kills the Miata for me. Just something about the curve of the hood relative to the wheel arch that doesn't work. I think the 124 looks MUCH better.

nderwater wrote: It's exactly that look -- body work stretched as tightly as possible over the hard points -- that to me says 'purposeful' and 'athletic' and is partly why I prefer the styling of the the Mazda over the Fiat

You can have a car stretched tightly over the hard points and still have classic, good styling. The Miata has neither.

In reply to Keith Tanner:

Do my spidey senses detect a Targa Fiata in the future?

This is very interesting to me. I have liked the look of the ND since it came out, and all these side by sides are just reaffirming to me that I prefer the miata. Never have seen the 124 in person though, maybe that would help.

Can't tell you why, I just really do. The fiat seems so bland to me. Its barely not a perfect rectangle from front, side, back, and top.