Thinking out loud, AKA my "what car"...

Soon I will be shopping to replace my '13 Elantra coupe, so just thinking out loud here for any feedback.  A lot to it, so I'll try to make it to the point. 

My commute is 60 miles each way, almost all highway, some in ATL traffic.  Then I spend a lot of time running kids around to sports, etc...  Drive 25-30k miles/year.  Highway cruising is key, but I don't want something that handles like a Prius or '83 Town Car.

I'm not a kid anymore, so looking for luxury touches...heated seats are a must.  Very,, very strong wants are ventilated front seats, heated steering wheel.  Other luxuries are gravy.

Vital stats on "musts" for the car:  '13 or newer w/under 60k miles, as I'm financing (please no lectures, I'm a big boy, I got this).  Budget is $20k or less.  0-60 in around 6 seconds, I'm done with slow cars.  Solid reliability that doesn't need higher than normal upkeep, so Germans are likely out.  Should be Accord/Camry size or larger, because they're better highway cruisers and I have to carry kids and football/lacrosse gear.  So we're really talking large family sedan, luxury sedan type stuff.

The cars that check pretty much all my boxes:

Chrysler 300C w/Hemi, Kia Cadenza, Hyundai Azera, Hyundai Genesis 5.0, Hyundai Equus

Other very strong contenders, which may be missing a bit of luxury touch, but still have a lot of redeeming qualities...

Accord EX-L V6 (missing luxuries, but otherwise the car is spectacular), Altima SL V6, Maxima SL, Volvo S60, Ford Flex Limited (Ecoboost out of price range, so base engine), Ford Taurus SHO, Acura TL or TLX (worth the extra $$ over the Accord?)

I love the G37/Q50 from a driving standpoint, but they require premium unleaded...and at $.60/gallon more, it really adds up, so I think that's out.

I like some GM stuff, but not sure about reliability? 

Anything else I'm missing?  As I've done before, I will curse under my breath at Honda.  The Accord V6 is oh so good...fast, stupidly reliable, big, handles well, cruises fantastic, fuel efficient, just an awesome car top to bottom.  But I really was hoping for ventilated seats and a heated wheel, and you can't get them in an Accord...or even a TL.  Why?????  Curse you, Honda!!   It would be my hands down choice otherwise.  The 300C w/Hemi checks all boxes, but is an old platform with Mercedes transmission (not sure I can afford the newer one).  Intrigued by the Genesis/Equus, have to drive them.  They depreciate like crazy, but that could play in my favor if I do it right.  Handling dynamics are probably typical Hyundai/Kia (my Elantra has pretty poor dynamics) but I'm cruising the highway, so???

Dodge charger? The 392 cars are pretty awesome.  

Im shocked by how well my base model 10 impala company car is doing.  The higher trims have the options you want. 

Mine was a fleet pool car for the last 100k until they assigned it to me. There seem to be no ill effects. 

The FWD Koreans in your list might/will be the best from a financial standpoint. They will get the best MPGs of the group will all the lux features you want (I think). They have crossed my mind but I am likely going to end up in a van. 

In reply to Mndsm :

I doubt it has all the Lux features of the 300C so not any better than the accord except in for tire shredding and straight up speed. 

The older Impala is too rental car grade for my tastes, even at the higher trim levels.  The newest one does have some interest, but for the money not sure it's the best used car value.  It sells for the same money as an Accord or TL or 300C.

Yes, the Koreans have every luxury touch I want, as does the 300C.  The Charger can be equipped with luxuries, but it's harder to find.  The 300C has the added bonus of being significantly faster than the Kia, but is an old platform.  Those are the only cars that check almost every single box.  I'm going to have to do a bunch of test driving.  I've never driven the Cadenza, so I can't speak from experience, but I do have a ton of experience with Hyundai/Kia in general, so I'm a fan.  I've test driven the 300C many times, as well as the Accord, so I'm familiar with both of those.  That's the part I go back and forth with.  Putting the luxury aside, I think the Accord is just a better all around car.  Not by much, because I really like the 300C quite a bit, but I think the Honda is just > < that much better.  As I said, if Honda had offered the luxuries, this wouldn't even be a debate.  A loaded Acura TLX could fit the bill, but probably is out of my price range.  So do I go for my luxuries or give them up for the better all around car?  I suspect I'll feel the same about the Cadenza as I do the 300C, from everything I've read.  The other cars I listed are in the same boat.  Like them a lot on paper, and they may be at the lower end of my budget which is a huge plus and why they're on the list.

Looking to see if anyone has personal long term experience with any of these cars.  It's one thing to test drive a car, but another to live with it day to day.  I can tell you a ton more about my Elantra now that I've put 40k miles on it than when I first took it for a test drive.

Just get a damn Honda, you’ve been oh so close to it for so long and keep coming back to it after all these years.  

2013-2014 Acura TL with the Advance package does have vented seats, and there are a handful out there with manual transmissions even!  305hp, nice place to be, Honda reliable, huge back seat for the kids, reasonable fuel economy (especially compared to some others in the list), and dynamically better than the Koreans.  

If you are willing to stretch your mileage requirements some, a Lexus GS350 would be in that range.  The ES350 would probably be in that range, but there is pretty much no sportiness there, other than the acceleration.

My two 5-year-old car picks:

(I missed where you already nailed this one with rental grade.)

2013 Impala.  300HP LFX engine. 3550# curb weight. 0-60 in 6.2 seconds. >30mpg. in a plain brown wrapper.  It's like a cloaking device for carving through interstate traffic with impunity.  Durable, comfortable, (ugly) interior.  CHEAP and plentiful....best examples are a little more than half your budget.  I can't explain it, but I enjoy beating the hell out of a cheap rental Impala.

vs

2013 Camry V6 SE.  268HP. 3400# curb weight. 0-60 5.6 seconds. >30mpg.  Toyota tax pricing is within your budget, but ~50% more than a comparable Impala.  These have much better chassis dynamics and I find them fun to drive.  Less depreciation, higher resale.

I can't stomach the looks of the modern TL.  If it weren't outside of your parameters,  I'd say a 2007 TL-S:  6spd, LSD, Brembos, and they look great.

Hmmm... Stretch a bit on your budget and blammo: https://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/d/lexus-gs-350-sport-2014/6484432282.html

Sonic said:

Just get a damn Honda, you’ve been oh so close to it for so long and keep coming back to it after all these years.  

2013-2014 Acura TL with the Advance package does have vented seats, and there are a handful out there with manual transmissions even!  305hp, nice place to be, Honda reliable, huge back seat for the kids, reasonable fuel economy (especially compared to some others in the list), and dynamically better than the Koreans.  

Crap...back to research I go...I know you're a Honda guru, so I believe you, but I must have missed that the TL was offered with vented seats.  I'd have sworn when I researched them that only the newer TLX has them as an option.  Yeah, I like the Honda stuff a ton, every time I drive the Accord, I love it.   That's why I sorely wish it was offered with a lot of luxury.  Frankly, I want something along the lines of your Benz, but in Japanese form.  No manuals this time, I want something I can share with Kara.  She loves nice cars, and has been stuck with our Sedona for years.  While she's quite proficient at driving manuals, she doesn't want one, so auto it is.

I heard you talking about Korean cars on the podcast and I was nodding in full agreement.  The depreciation is brutal, but like my Elantra, I buy them after they take that initial massive nose dive, so it works in my favor (I would never buy one new).  My major complaint with them is chassis dynamics.  Even though I drive in a straight line, I still notice it.  I really like my Elantra, it's great.  Nice interior for a small car, cruises fine, reliable, great mpg, just a nice car.  But somehow Hyundai tuned a suspension that has body roll AND significantly worse impact harshness than my NC Miata, along with a rear that steps out if you hit bumps mid-corner.  How they managed all of that I don't know, but it's bizarre. 

I had similar but lower requirements (less budget, higher miles, similar characteristics). I looked really hard at the VW CC, but in the end couldn't find one that would work for me. It meets a lot of your requirements, and the R-Line package looks great! Yeah, yeah, reliability, but I really didn't see many issues online about these. They are basically the European Passat, and while I hadn't noticed them on the roads much before, after doing some research I now see them everywhere!

In the end, I went with an 09 Accord EX-L V6 and so far it has been great at doing everything you list above. I've had previous CL's, TL's, Integra's, etc, so am very familiar with Honda.

The wife had an IS350 and it was a great car, but might be a little on the small side for you, so I like the GS recommendation above as well...

In my area the GS's depreciate pretty hard.  Maybe because everybody wants to switch to an SUV around here..   Check out your areas prices you might be pleasantly surprised.

Might the Lincoln MKS EcoBoost get you the Taurus SHO plus the missing luxury touches?

Sonic said:

Just get a damn Honda, you’ve been oh so close to it for so long and keep coming back to it after all these years.  

2013-2014 Acura TL with the Advance package does have vented seats, and there are a handful out there with manual transmissions even!  305hp, nice place to be, Honda reliable, huge back seat for the kids, reasonable fuel economy (especially compared to some others in the list), and dynamically better than the Koreans.  

I would agree with this.  The TLX is too new to hit your price point, but the TL should fit the bill.  I was not crazy about the TLX anyway - it looks like a very large new Civic, and that's not a plus in my book.  Check the fuel requirements on the TL, though.  The K24 in my 2004 TSX requires 92 octane, if that has any relevance to the newer / larger car.

What about this? 2014 Volvo S60 in your area - $16,500 and 35k

We have the 2017 version of this car.  It's a very nice place to be, particularly for highway hauling.   Interior finish is very nice, and Volvo has some of the best seats in the business.  Probably can't get ventilated seats. 

Ours is the turbo 2.0/4; it is plenty peppy and runs fine on 87 octane, though I usually use 89. It even manages to feel almost light on its feet.  It's not a sports car, but it wasn't embarrassed by being test driven back-to-back with a similar 330i.  Ours is the LWB version, which has 3" more rear seat room, but even the SWB one isn't bad back there.

If you want something larger, bumping up to $23-$25,000 you can get a similar S80.

I think most everything has been covered already, so all I will say is: I LOL'd that you live in Atlanta and heated seats are a requirement.

Here’s one, there is even a picture of the buttons for the heated and vented seats just behind the shifter.  You’re looking for one with the Advance package. 

https://longisland.craigslist.org/ctd/d/2013-acura-tl-advance-sedan/6481192219.html

The closest non euro match to my CLS63 is probably a Lexus GS-F but those are more than you want to spend.  

Yeah, I did some checking on Autotrader over lunch and found a few.  Glad you pointed out vented seats were available, I had nearly written the TL off.  Without the extra luxury, I didn't see a lot of advantage for them over a loaded Accord.  Definitely have to go drive them, haven't driven a TL since test driving a 2005 model when it was new. 

Duke, I do like the S60.  I was in California a few weeks ago and had one as a rental.  It was an '18 Inscription, so it had the longer wheelbase.  I put a solid 250 miles on it, so I got some decent seat time...and hammered it each time I drove it.  I was quite impressed.  Quick, comfy, ran the highway well, and like you said the seats were bliss.  The start/stop feature stunk, but I know you can turn it off.  Transmission was slow to respond sometimes.  Driving that car all week was what really convinced me that I want a nice sized luxury cruiser.

STM317, yep, not afraid to say it.  I lived almost all my life in Philly, so I know winter well.  But I've acclimated to the Atlanta warmth, and the older I get the less and less I can tolerate cold.  If it's 35 degrees when I leave the house at 4:30am, the seat heaters are on.  I don't leave them on long, just enough to make them toasty.

Haven't had any time to go test drive yet...between crazy busy work schedule and 3 kids in lacrosse,  just hasn't happened.  Hopeful to get out in the next few weeks. 

Accord, 300C and Cadenza are first up for test driving.

Wanted to bring this back up to see if anyone has more than just round-the-block test drive experience with the '13+ Avalon.  In Limited trim they're pretty well decked out, big, Toyota reliable and surprisingly cheap.  Like most of you, I still have that mental image of them in my head.  My 75 year old father in law has one, something like an '01.  We used it for a weekend once, a few years back.  Holy moly, it was a barcalounger on wheels, and handled about as well.  All the car mags say the '13+ is light years better, no longer meant for the 65 and over only crowd.  Certainly not a sports car by any stretch, but handle decently and don't make you seasick on the highway.  Anyone driven one any distance?

My 83 year old Dad had a 13 Avalon Limited for about 8 months, when it was hit in the rear when stopped by someone who was going 40 in a mid sized SUV.  That totaled it, the car took it like a champ with the passenger cage completely intact and all doors could open, my dad had some bruises but was otherwise OK. 

I drove it a bit and was impressed compared to the prior generations of Avalon that I had more experience with from when I worked for Toyota.  The quality of the interior materials was superior to anything in the class.  It was far less numb than the previous versions but certainly not what I would call a sport sedan.  I bet it would drive better than the Cadenza as Kia still can’t get suspension tuning right.   

When wet were on 1 Lap the Toyota team had an Avalon as one of their cars, it had a mild amount of work done to it and was way faster than it should have been.  

Why hey are you bothering with these others, just go get the 2014 TL advance and be happy.  

In reply to Sonic :

Thanks!  We've had a couple of Camrys as fleet cars here...don't remember what years, I think '11 or '12.  The V6 one was actually somewhat entertaining to drive, but the interiors would have been a deal breaker had I considered buying one.  Glad to hear you give good feedback about the Avalons interior...in pictures it looks nice, but I have to see it and touch it.

TL will be on the list to drive too.  Kara is part of this purchase, it's very important to me that she likes whatever we buy.  In all honesty, her satisfaction is more important to me than ventilated seats.  She's been driving a base Sedona for years, I don't want to be selfish.  She owned a TL way back in '01 and really liked it, but is quite lukewarm about the '13-'14 styling.  Her favorite was her G35.  We test drove a G37 a few years back, and she got out of it with a smile on her face.  But 23mpg on premium fuel is just something we can't do, given how much I drive. 

A lot of comfort options plus good highway cruising sounds rather Buick-ish to me. Looks like the performance version of the Regal that year would have used a turbo Ecotech, which might be out due to the "no premium" rule. The other option looks like it would have been a Lacrosse full sized car with a V6. I haven't driven the newer ones, but they often had a suspension package with some pretense of sportiness.

What about any of the Cadillac offerings? While doing some recent research I stumbled upon the CTS V-Sport, with a 420 hp twin-turbo 6-cylinder and magnetic ride control (!), which are trading on the used market for sometimes under $30k.

Now that trim takes premium and swills fuel too much for you, but they also have the lower trim versions in sedan and wagon which might be creeping down into your budget?

CobraSpdRH said:but they also have the lower trim versions in sedan and wagon which might be creeping down into your budget?

Current bodystyle CTS is sedan only. No Coupe or wagon on this generation. You can get an ATS coupe though if 2 door Caddys are your thing.

Premium "required" cars are out, unfortunately.  At $.60/gallon more, it adds up...especially when those types of cars often don't get the best mpg.  A G37 would cost something like $1200-$1500/year more in fuel alone than a V6 Accord.  That's enough to pay for 1.5 race weekends for me, or pay for all 3 of my kids fall sports sign up fees, so it's not chump change.

I may go drive a GM or two, just because I want to test drive as much as I can and see if anything really speaks to me, or more importantly my wife.  She likes the CTS, but for me it would really have to blow my doors off...for the money I think I'd rather have a number of other cars.  There's also a reliability factor.  Don't have time/money/patience to deal with something needing too much attention.  Hence why I'm looking at mostly Japanese and Koreans.  Otherwise, I'd be highly interested in a BMW 3 series, a '13-'14 328i falls quite nicely into my price range.

I was about to mention the Acura’s thirst for premium and they’re expensive as hell options. They’re still a timing belt car too and at your price range ready for that painful service.