Third gen F body manual trans swap.

So I'm about to start working on my Camaro again, and I want to do a little research on a manual trans swap. I know the factory trans in these cars are a weak link once power is made, and I'm wanting to research all my options.

Questions.

Is there anything specific that I need to shop for?

Is a T10 or Super T10 a hydraulic clutch trans?

This is not a challenge budget build, more of a several stages over a period of time kinda build.

Shopping on Summit is great, but I'm not above the junkyard crawl, craigslist search methods. Which vehicles should I look for.

The car is gonna be built as a fun street car, might see some cones, but for the most part will be just a cruiser with a nice idle and shiny wheels.

Go!

Thirdgen.org is your friend.

That being said, I believe they are hydraulic. I also think parts will interchange between third and fourth gen cars. You can probably get a T56 with a SBC bellhousing relatively cheap because everyone wants teh LS Juan bellhousing.

you can make any manual a hydraulic clutch with the right parts.

the 1982 cars had a t10 or st10(not sure which) with hydro clutch. good luck finding one though.

by relatively cheap for a an lt1 t56? 1200 is cheap, 1500 is normal from what i witness.

from your description i would still not shy away from a stock t5 from a v8 car.

the T10 only ever came with a hydraulic clutch in a GM car as installed in 4+3 form in 80's Corvettes.. also, it won't have the torque arm mount for an F body unless it's one of the rare 82 only ST10's, and those had a mechanical clutch linkage with a Z bar..

the only hydraulic part is the throwout bearing or a cylinder the pushes on the clutch fork in the bellhousing, which isn't a part of the trans, so that part doesn't matter for what you are doing, anyways.

you are pretty much stuck with a T5 from a 3rd gen or T56 from a 4th gen unless you want to make a mount for the torque arm on the trans crossmember.

as for what to look for: find a complete V8 3rd gen Camaro/Z28 or Firebird/Trans Am with a manual trans and get everything trans related- trans, belllhousing, flywheel, clutch, pedals, master and slave cylinders, shifter, shift boot, decorative plate for the console...

patgizz wrote: the 1982 cars had a t10 or st10(not sure which) with hydro clutch. good luck finding one though.

Actually, they used the Muncie for 82 and 83. The Z28 package even got an M22. I tried to buy the stick when I bought mine new in 82, but impatience and a shortage of stick cars got me a turbo 200.

A quick CL search netted me a V6 manual trans from a 3.8 car. Says it had a removable bellhousing, all the pedals etc. Any reason to stay away from this transmission? Which one is this?

the 4th gen V6 T5 is better than the older T5, but it's still quite a bit different.. i think the input shaft is a different length with an oddball pilot diameter and spline count. also, it will have a VSS instead of a speedo gear.. people have used them, but it takes some effort to get it in and operating.

i think the most bulletproof way to go with factory parts is Mustang guts in the F body case.

'82 got a 4 speed with a mechanical clutch linkage.
'83 got a T5 with a mechanical clutch linkage (I owned one...I swapped to hydraulic clutch)
'84-up had T5 with Hydraulic clutch.

That's a general rule...I don't know if there was any overlap or were any rare cases/exceptions.

It's easy to find V6 camaros to get pedal parts from. Hydraulics are pretty cheap from the auto parts store...but you could use parts-car stuff if you find it.

It's super-critical to get your hydraulic master cylinder placement right (on the firewall) so the pushrod is inline with the master cylinder bore or you'll blow out the master in short order (I know from experience).

Bellhousings are specific to f-bodies as the transmission was rotated a bit in the car, unlike standard "straight-up" configuration found in most applications.

It's been a while, but I used to know my way around a manual transmission-equipped thirdgen.

Clem

Nothing is cheap with a T-56. Nothing.

If you don't mind opening up a T5, there is an extra support that can be installed which is supposed to help quite a bit. The part is 50 bucks or so.

For your purposes, a NP 833 OD 4 speed out of a 80s Chevy pickup might work, most need a rebuild though, they eat bearings being a 4 speed turned OD. 3rd is straight drive, 4th is actually a OD gearset in the 3rd slot, so the whole trans is loaded/spun up most of the time. They all came with hurst shifters too IIRC.

Kenny_McCormic wrote: For your purposes, a NP 833 OD 4 speed out of a 80s Chevy pickup might work, most need a rebuild though, they eat bearings being a 4 speed turned OD. 3rd is straight drive, 4th is actually a OD gearset in the 3rd slot, so the whole trans is loaded/spun up most of the time. They all came with hurst shifters too IIRC.

getting one in a third gen F body will be a bit of an adventure- the trans mount will be in the wrong spot, the trans is shorter than anything put in an F body after 82, and there is no mount for the torque arm.. these are all things that can be overcome, but finding a complete parts donor V8 Camaro or Firebird is really the best way to go.

About 5 years ago I swapped a T5 from a V6 3rd gen car into a 1992 RS which was originally equipped with a 305 + 700r4 combo. I put the V6 T5 behind a warmed over 355 (vortec heads, LT4 hot cam, etc). I was able to buy an older manual trans v6 car for $60 to get most of the swap parts (pedals, hydraulics, console stuff, shifter, etc). I used a lakewood bellhousing that I picked up on the ebay for $100. I didn't want to deal with finding a world class v8 t5 with the 26? spline shaft, so I found a different combination that worked. I ended up using WC v6 T5 out of another thirdgen car. IIRC, the 1988+ v6 cars also got WC T5's. At this point, the trick was finding a clutch+flywheel combo that would work. The ~1987 chevy astro van w/ 4.3L engine and manual trans used a 11" clutch with the correct 1" x 14 spline pattern for the v6 trans. This works with a 168 tooth flywheel that was used for manual trans pickups of the same vintage. I was able to use this combo since the lakewood bellhousing would accommodate the larger flywheel. (stock v8 camaro is 153 and uses a 10.5" clutch, IIRC). The downsides of the lakewood piece were that I had to "clearance" it for the exhaust on the driver's side and use a mini starter to give sufficient clearance on the passenger side. Mounting the master cylinder was straight forward. There was an obvious indentation on the firewall where the holes needed to go. I used a jumper to bypass the auto's neutral safety switch, although you could also wire up a clutch pedal switch if desired. I ran w/o a VSS while I had the car, but the next owner installed one. I was a poor college student at the time and it was kinda pricey, so I just used the tach to est speed after making an excel sheet.

I did not have issues with the T5 holding up the ~2 years I had the car after the swap. I also witnessed first hand a WC V8 T5 break 3rd gear behind a 383 making 430 ft-lb at the flywheel. My 355 dyno'd at ~360 ft-lb flywheel.

You are making me miss the third gen I had.

Thanks for all the input guys, this stage if the project is far off, but it's never too soon to research.

Couple of other notes that just popped into my head:

1. Keep the plastic line from the clutch master to slave AWAY from the header/exhaust. Nothing like driving 60 miles home from an auto-x with no clutch. I ended up getting a fitting that allowed the use of a -3 or -4 AN braided line. That + rerouting and it was all good.

2. The bleed screw on the plastic slave cylinder stripped out very easily. The aftermarket (advance auto, IIRC) replacement was aluminum and surprisingly cheap.