https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/full.pdf
Found in this article
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/12/truck-emissions-mods-pollute-more-than-dieselgate-epa-says/
Basically the epa estimates half a million diesel trucks with tunes or other defeat devicds have the same emissions as an extra 9 million vehicles on the road.
Kinda common sense. But seems like there will be more action on those putting together tunes and dpf deletes soon.
I didn't read the linked paper, but those kind of studies are the precursor/basis for regulatory action. They wouldn't spend the money to do the research unless there was some plan on how to deal with it once the data confirmed it.
I hate to say this about regulation in general, but I think I like the idea. I can't stand coal rollers. It's just poor/lazy tuning who's only purpose is being an asshat.
The EPA is cracking down on all tuner parts that remove or bypass factory smog systems. I know a lot of the VW tuners will not be producing new downpipes, catted or not. That kills all but stage 1 tunes for VWs.
Personally, I think pulling the smog gear off a diesel is an shiny happy person move. I can't wait until they crack down on these dipE36 M3s.
They've already started cracking down on loud exhaust systems here in CA. I believe it's an automatic $500 fine plus the system has to be removed before the car can be registered again.
I hate Coal Rollers, but of course I am not happy about all car tuning being under the microscope. Especially since coal rollers are likely to not feel the pain here. There is no effective system in place to enforce EPA regs other other than A) state emissions testing - which aside from CA has so many loopholes its silly and B) cracking down on tuners.
I can't say the results of their study are suprising though.
Big discussion from a year ago: https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/discussions-with-carb-and-the-epa-on-the-future-of-performance-parts/160897/page1/
The Diesel Brothers were hit with a $850,000 fine from the EPA earlier this year.
So is this going to mandate something different on inspection, or require some type of inspection on trucks being weighed? I am thinking about the guys who show up at autocross with ear splitting "mufflers" who get angry when they flunk sound check. I/we are not going to risk losing a venue for someone with a ridiculously loud exhaust. I showed up at a hill climb and flunked tech because my seat belt was frayed. I knew it was frayed, and saw it in the rules. For whatever reason, I didn't think it was THAT frayed. They offered all types of help, but would not let me race. I wanted to cry, but the last thing I wanted to be was angry. It was my fault and I could have fixed it.
I enjoy watching the big smoky diesels at the drag strip, but not on the road. Time and place for everything. Sad for increased regulation that didn't need to happen.
Real race vehicles (not street vehicles being used occasionally for racing) are viewed differently at the moment. Check that link I posted earlier, it may clear up some of your questions.
This isn't new regulation. It's enforcement of existing regulations.
It would be nice if they would make the systems more relaible, or not mandatory if not needed to pass the epa tests. My def system completely failed at 59k with many smaller issues up to that point. Do i want to be a bro with an uncorked 5" exhaust and a blow all the soot tune? Nope. Do i want to be the guy whose truck gets him to work every day reliably that doesn't need to go to the dealer every 5k for warranty work on the def system? Yep.
i have partially deleted stuff because of all the problems i had and have an efficient tune that blows no visible soot. I put a muffler on so it's not loud, and i am averaging 4mpg above stock across the board. What's the overall tradeoff for pollution increase vs overall fuel consumption decrease?
it pisses me off just as much to see someone going by uncorked blowing soot like a 40 year old dump truck
In reply to thedoc :
It's up to the states to do inspections- that's not in the EPA's authority.
Where they do have authority is to find out who is supplying the ability to tamper with the vehicles, and prosecute them. Just like for cars.
The additional regulations would be to tighten new truck emissions faster and further than they are now to make up for the tampering.
Patrick (Forum Supporter) said:It would be nice if they would make the systems more relaible, or not mandatory if not needed to pass the epa tests. My def system completely failed at 59k with many smaller issues up to that point. Do i want to be a bro with an uncorked 5" exhaust and a blow all the soot tune? Nope. Do i want to be the guy whose truck gets him to work every day reliably that doesn't need to go to the dealer every 5k for warranty work on the def system? Yep.
i have partially deleted stuff because of all the problems i had and have an efficient tune that blows no visible soot. I put a muffler on so it's not loud, and i am averaging 4mpg above stock across the board. What's the overall tradeoff for pollution increase vs overall fuel consumption decrease?
it pisses me off just as much to see someone going by uncorked blowing soot like a 40 year old dump truck
Odds are that you are multiple times the emissions on the truck. Just because you can't see soot doesn't mean it's not well over the standard. On the emissions front, the NOx is likely way out of wack. Can't be sure, but I would think that your are somewhere between 5-10x of your original trucks.
And the real issue you have is with the maker, not the rules. If it really all failed at 59k, I would totally send a note to the EPA and complain about it- as they are supposed to go twice that far and still keep the emissions. And failing is not an option. If enough people had the same issues you have, the EPA would force the maker to fix it, on their dollar.
I realize that many people here are not a fan of the EPA, but they can be used as a very powerful tool to make the maker of whatever you have meet the rules.
Keith Tanner said:Real race vehicles (not street vehicles being used occasionally for racing) are viewed differently at the moment. Check that link I posted earlier, it may clear up some of your questions.
This isn't new regulation. It's enforcement of existing regulations.
That. Expect some companies to get in a lot of trouble.
In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :
The epa has a very important role, i try my best to not run afoul of them, but i was in the countdown to shutdown mode and was not in a position job wise to send my truck to the dealer for a week. When i bought my truck i was fully aware I was buying an FCA product to get the engine i wanted. I was in a position to have a programmer sent to me for the weekend so i could be back running for work monday. Finished my work week with 2 miles left on the countdown to 5mph limited speed counter. Some jobs i do can't be pushed off because your truck is broken, and i made that choice.
I grew up in Pittsburgh. I remember being downtown in the 1970's when the whole city was dark at 12:00 noon from all the smog from the mills and foundries. I've always been very much in favor of environmental regulation, even though I tend to be skeptical of regulation in general. I'm glad the EPA is taking enforcement action on this.
Patrick (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to alfadriver (Forum Supporter) :
The epa has a very important role, i try my best to not run afoul of them, but i was in the countdown to shutdown mode and was not in a position job wise to send my truck to the dealer for a week. When i bought my truck i was fully aware I was buying an FCA product to get the engine i wanted. I was in a position to have a programmer sent to me for the weekend so i could be back running for work monday. Finished my work week with 2 miles left on the countdown to 5mph limited speed counter. Some jobs i do can't be pushed off because your truck is broken, and i made that choice.
You do see what I'm talking about WRT complaining about your emissions hardware failing way too early, though, right? Really, the EPA would be happy to look into the reasons why FCA isn't complying with the rules, and they should be replacing everything that's failing. I get not doing stuff or doing other stuff.
Every time I see one of the "coal rollers" they are doing something obnoxiously stupid in addition to the black cloud they generate. This past weekend on a road trip a raised body Coal Roller was trying to drive 100mph plus weaving in and out of interstate traffic. Its amazing he didn't flip it over.
Darting in between cars, making dangerous lane changes with minimal clearance, all the while putting out so much black smoke it was obscuring the vision of everyone within a few hundred feet.
Fortunately he disappeared into the distance, unfortunately I didn't come across him upside down in a ditch later on.
What's the warranty on those often unreliable emission parts on diesel trucks? Does it cover a loaner truck?
In reply to jharry3 :
Those people are called a-holes, and unfortunately they're everywhere. Unfortunately the EPA can't fix stupid or crazy.
jharry3 said:Every time I see one of the "coal rollers" they are doing something obnoxiously stupid in additon to the black cloud they generate. This past weekend on a road trip a raised body Coal Roller was trying to drive 100mph plus weaving in and out of interstate traffic. Its amazing he didn't flip it over.
Darting in between cars, making dangerous lane changes with minimal clearance, all the while putting out so much black smoke it was obscuring the vision of everyone within a few hundred feet.
Fortunately he disappeared into the distance, unfortunately I didn't come across him upside down in a ditch later on.
I'm glad they don't drive like that around here in the Land of Trucks lol.
yupididit said:What's the warranty on those often unreliable emission parts on diesel trucks? Does it cover a loaner truck?
Supposed to be 80k miles, I thought.
alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:yupididit said:What's the warranty on those often unreliable emission parts on diesel trucks? Does it cover a loaner truck?
Supposed to be 80k miles, I thought.
this is correct.
"The Federal Emissions Warranty can cover emissions related component repairs for vehicles up to 8 years old or up to 80,000 miles, whichever comes first"
https://help.ford.com/warranty/emissions-defect-warranty/
In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :
Work trucks can do 80k in a few years
Fueled by Caffeine said:https://cdn.arstechnica.net/wp-content/uploads/2020/12/full.pdf
Found in this article
https://arstechnica.com/cars/2020/12/truck-emissions-mods-pollute-more-than-dieselgate-epa-says/
Basically the epa estimates half a million diesel trucks with tunes or other defeat devicds have the same emissions as an extra 9 million vehicles on the road.
Kinda common sense. But seems like there will be more action on those putting together tunes and dpf deletes soon.
Oh thank you thank you THANK YOU! I live in diesel hell here. So sick of getting fogged out from cancer inducing, coal rolling, brobots!
Can we talk about what defines "coal rolling?"
I ask because I have a 97 F-250 7.3. It is factory stock except for a 5 position switch that I use during towing. When I say factory I mean, OEM size tires, no lift, and factory intake and down pipe. It had 112,000 miles 2 years ago when I bought it and I'm up 176,000 now (I'm a roofing sales manager in north Atlanta that covers Chattanooga TN). Even in the stock position, if I'm towing or getting hard on the go pedal (which I don't do often) I see some smoke out of the tailpipe. It's been like this since before the chip. I have no blow by- etc, I think that's just factory.
my point is that if you drive a diesel, and are towing fairly heavy you are likely to have more visible exhaust at times than a comparable gas vehicle- so is that considered coal rolling?
In reply to yupididit :
Less than 3 would be no surprise.
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