Make sure you can get a controller for that Model 3 motor. Last time I looked, nobody had one working. The Model S unit is bigger and looks less like a production car, but there are definitely controllers available.
Make sure you can get a controller for that Model 3 motor. Last time I looked, nobody had one working. The Model S unit is bigger and looks less like a production car, but there are definitely controllers available.
Keith Tanner said:Toyman01 + Sized and said:Driven5 said:The more impressive the numbers get, the more they leave me cold... It's an odd feeling.
Quoted for truth.
Give me a basic truck that can do an 8-10 second 0-60, has a 500+ mile range, and can tow 5000 pounds 250 miles, for under $40k. Then we can talk.
Can you get that today regardless of fuel? The 2WD F150 is close but with a 23 gallon tank I don't think it'll hit your towing range requirement.
My 4x4 5.0 f150 crew cab is rated at 5.9 0-60 and gets 500 miles on a tank. It'll tow 7400 iirc and gets 12ish towing so it hits that too. The heyday of everything is right now and I can't wait for the EVs to make it better at similar prices.
Keith Tanner said:Toyman01 + Sized and said:Driven5 said:The more impressive the numbers get, the more they leave me cold... It's an odd feeling.
Quoted for truth.
Give me a basic truck that can do an 8-10 second 0-60, has a 500+ mile range, and can tow 5000 pounds 250 miles, for under $40k. Then we can talk.
Can you get that today regardless of fuel? The 2WD F150 is close but with a 23 gallon tank I don't think it'll hit your towing range requirement.
Just about any used diesel will top that for half the money and the other $20k buys 125k miles of fuel. My father's truck will tow his 34' 5th wheel camper over 300 miles per fill-up. Drop the trailer and it gets 20+ mpg.
The basic Lightning is going to be close in price but is only good for an estimated 230 miles with no load. It will only get 150 miles loaded with the bigger battery. That's not good enough. If they would stop with the bells and whistles, the insane 0-60 times, and dump that money into battery capacity, they could probably pull it off now. Since that doesn't generate headlines, it doesn't take priority. Build me a work truck with enough range that I can give to an employee and send him anywhere in the state, I'll at least consider it. For that matter, build me a truck that's better than a used truck.
Maybe in a few more years.
Keith Tanner said:In reply to captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :
GM's EV monster is called the Hummer :)
Want to run your new street Tesla in an NHRA event? Here's what you need!
9.99 seconds (6.39 1/8th) or Super Gas or 135 mph
NHRA Chassis Certification
NHRA Competition License
SFI jacket & pants 3.2A/5
SFI neck collar & gloves 3.3/1
SFI 29.1 flexplate / 30.1 flexplate shield (AT equipped cars)
Full Face Helmet meeting Snell or SFI specifications150 mph
ParachuteI really, really, really want to see a parachute in the Telsa optional equipment for this car. How's that for marketing?
It's a Tesla. It won't use a chute, it will instead spin 180 degrees and thrust to a stop.
chandler said:Keith Tanner said:Toyman01 + Sized and said:Driven5 said:The more impressive the numbers get, the more they leave me cold... It's an odd feeling.
Quoted for truth.
Give me a basic truck that can do an 8-10 second 0-60, has a 500+ mile range, and can tow 5000 pounds 250 miles, for under $40k. Then we can talk.
Can you get that today regardless of fuel? The 2WD F150 is close but with a 23 gallon tank I don't think it'll hit your towing range requirement.
My 4x4 5.0 f150 crew cab is rated at 5.9 0-60 and gets 500 miles on a tank. It'll tow 7400 iirc and gets 12ish towing so it hits that too. The heyday of everything is right now and I can't wait for the EVs to make it better at similar prices.
Ford.com says that's over $40k (2021 F150 XL, crew cab, 4x4, 5.0 $40,790). Hey, I'm just playing by the rules set down by Toyman for the hypothetical truck that he'll talk about :)
And of course actual operating costs will be higher with the liquid fuel vehicle so comparing MSRP to MSRP is not really accurate anyhow.
And of course you can do better used. You always can. "Build me a truck that's better than a used truck" is only going to work if you set very high standards for that used truck. Like the ability to refuel from a wall socket or the ability to run your house in a power outage.
Keep in mind that insane acceleration is a byproduct of battery capacity. More battery = the ability to deliver more energy. So if you're specifying for range, you get quick 0-60 times as a byproduct.
In reply to Toyman01 + Sized and :
I went to the Ford website to check out the EV F150 and noted they had a placeholder for some sort of "Commercial" EV truck. Which is exciting, and hopefully will trade doo-dads for longer range.
I will note, I was discouraged by the lack of any detail about the available body style/s of the electric F150. Makes me think it'll be a crew cab with a vestigial bed, in other words, the soccer-mom configuration.
As I pointed out before, the entry fee for a 3/4 ton, crew cab, long bed, gasser 3/4 ton truck is about $45k, which hits all your towing & range requirements above.
Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:Telsa's cars have been famous for their straight-line acceleration ever since Ludicrous Mode dropped so many years ago. Recently, unconfirmed reports suggested the electric automaker may have secured the quarter mile record for production cars at a recent test of the Model S Plaid in California. With little more to go on than the word of an anonymous source, one could be forgiven for holding a skeptical view of the claim. It seems that Jay Leno has put that speculation to rest, though, claiming to have made a record-breaking pass in the car himself in a phone call to Spike's Car Radio, reports Tesmanian.
Reports of the record attempt first dropped in mid-May, with Drive Tesla Canada citing a confidential source who claimed to be on site for the attempt. Occurring at Auto Club Famoso Raceway in Bakersfield, California, the informant quoted the Tesla Model S Plaid as laying down a 9.23 second pass with a trap speed of 152.16 miles per hour. They also noted that Jay Leno was in attendance, and that the famous Tonight Show host set a 9.50 second pass, albeit with two passengers on board.
Leno himself shared his account after phoning in to Spike's Car Radio, a podcast that speaks broadly on automotive topics. "I tell ya what I did, I went up to Famoso Dragway in Bakersfield, in a Tesla Plaid. I made one pass, I drove up, had the NHRA guys there to make it official," Leno told Spike Feresten, host of the podcast. "I turned a 9.247 at 152 miles an hour." A link to the podcast is embedded below; Leno begins discussing the Tesla run at 13:50 in.
Leno's retelling lines up with the previous account in key areas, namely that the record was set at Auto Club Famoso Raceway and that he himself was present. Notably, he doesn't claim that his time was a record, which is an important detail given the prior numbers quoted were marginally quicker than Leno's time—9.23 seconds versus 9.24, and a trap speed of 152.16 mph versus 152.09. While Leno claims to have only made one pass, it's likely that he was referring to a pass aiming at the record, as a slower run with passengers wouldn't set a competitive time.
The National Hot Rod Association haven't yet spoken as to whether the Tesla Model S Plaid has bested the record, currently held by the Bugatti Chiron Super Sport at 9.4 seconds. However, given Leno's standing in the car community and reputation, his word can likely be counted as truth when it comes to his own timeslips. It's expected that Tesla will announce the time officially when the first Model S Plaid is delivered on June 10. Notably, the company have updated their Model S page on the Tesla site, quoting a 9.23 second quarter mile time with a 155 mph trap speed.
Further supporting the story is an anonymous source that contacted The Drive by email following the initial post, who stated "I’ve seen video and spoken to someone who was at the Tesla Plaid test in Bakersfield and the number in the story y’all published today is legitimate. Leno was there as were two Tesla supplied drivers. The head of design from Tesla was also there." Expanding on the run, the source said "It’s not any different than what you’ve seen a 3 or, frankly, one of those eCopo Camaros look or sound like. Lots of tire noise and, unlike the Camaro, it looks like a piece of cake to drive."
It seems that Tesla may have the crown for now, though competition is always waiting in the wings. With that said, competitor Lucid have only quoted a quarter mile time of 9.9 seconds for the 2021 Lucid Air, with a prototype only going a touch quicker at 9.245 seconds down the strip. It could be some time until the record falls again; Bugatti held the title from 2018, after all. With the Tesla Roadster still under development, though, the electric automaker may still have some trump cards up its sleeve.
This makes me seriously wonder where we'll be in 5 years. You know the other EV companies aren't going to just let Tesla keep this record.
I haven't heard of an EV's lap time at the Nurburgring being touted that would be more impressive than drag racing to me.
Driven5 said:The more impressive the numbers get, the more they leave me cold... It's an odd feeling.
I just picture more and more people having access to these performance numbers. They're getting to the point where the human is the lagging point. I don't see anything good (as an enthusiast) coming from that
Mr_Asa said:Driven5 said:The more impressive the numbers get, the more they leave me cold... It's an odd feeling.
I just picture more and more people having access to these performance numbers. They're getting to the point where the human is the lagging point. I don't see anything good (as an enthusiast) coming from that
I have been watching too many super car fail videos on YouTube to be comfortable with that much acceleration in the hands of Joe Public
Rons said:I haven't heard of an EV's lap time at the Nurburgring being touted that would be more impressive than drag racing to me.
I mean, 7:42 is nothing to sneeze at.
Tom_Spangler (Forum Supporter) said:Rons said:I haven't heard of an EV's lap time at the Nurburgring being touted that would be more impressive than drag racing to me.
I mean, 7:42 is nothing to sneeze at.
Also, Model S Plaid 7:13
What percentage of battery power would a run like this take , or say 10 runs ,
When Top Gear went crazy on a Tesla years ago at their track they ran the battery down pretty quick .
Yes I know this use is not normal , but also doing low 9s in the Quarter !
I am sure new Teslas are better than the older mosel that Top Gear was testing.
If Tesla could run The Ring without cheating up their cars, that time might impress me.
volvoclearinghouse said:In reply to Toyman01 + Sized and :
I went to the Ford website to check out the EV F150 and noted they had a placeholder for some sort of "Commercial" EV truck. Which is exciting, and hopefully will trade doo-dads for longer range.
I will note, I was discouraged by the lack of any detail about the available body style/s of the electric F150. Makes me think it'll be a crew cab with a vestigial bed, in other words, the soccer-mom configuration.
At this time, all Lightnings are AWD, crew cabs with 5.5ft bed. This may be related to battery fitment, but time will tell if they release other cab/bed configurations. They do all have a lockable, weather tight "frunk" as well for increased storage, but hauling 8ft sheet goods in the bed isn't what that truck is for. You'd either need a trailer or some cash to just have it delivered.
The "commercial" version has fewer bells and whistles, but no more range. They start at $40k and will be eligible for the full $7500 federal tax credit, at least for a little bit. So you're talking about a crew cab, 4wd truck with 426hp, 775 ft-lbs, and super low running costs for low $30s. It's not "truck" enough for a small segment of hardcore truck people , but it's pretty great, and cheaper than its ICE equivalent
racerfink said:If Tesla could run The Ring without cheating up their cars, that time might impress me.
Can you expand upon that? I haven't followed them that much.
In reply to Mr_Asa :
Of the things that people could see, flared fenders, wider than stock Michelin Pilot Sport 2’s, and a different trunk spoiler. Porsche set their mark with a pre-production model, it was exactly as it hit the showroom.
There are a few articles on the net, including one from C&D.
In other words, the perfect thing to get all excited about on the internet - someone was viewed as cheating while not setting an official time at an arbitrary task :)
Shadeux said:Not that the bread and butter consumer market are going to have numbers like these, but I see a limitation on how quick they can accelerate just for the comfort of the average consumer. I'm reminded of Cadillac "detuning" the V series because some buyers complained they were too fast. I've met Boomer Zo6 owners that switched to a regular Corvette because the Zo6 was just too much to deal with. The average person juggling their cellphone and latte is suddenly pinned against their seat and they have no idea whats happening and by then they've driven through the whole damn Winn-Dixie.
I just had to come back and read that again, I'm crying laughing here, trying to be quiet enough to keep my infant asleep. It's a good replica of rocking her I guess
STM317 said:volvoclearinghouse said:In reply to Toyman01 + Sized and :
I went to the Ford website to check out the EV F150 and noted they had a placeholder for some sort of "Commercial" EV truck. Which is exciting, and hopefully will trade doo-dads for longer range.
I will note, I was discouraged by the lack of any detail about the available body style/s of the electric F150. Makes me think it'll be a crew cab with a vestigial bed, in other words, the soccer-mom configuration.
At this time, all Lightnings are AWD, crew cabs with 5.5ft bed. This may be related to battery fitment, but time will tell if they release other cab/bed configurations. They do all have a lockable, weather tight "frunk" as well for increased storage, but hauling 8ft sheet goods in the bed isn't what that truck is for. You'd either need a trailer or some cash to just have it delivered.
The "commercial" version has fewer bells and whistles, but no more range. They start at $40k and will be eligible for the full $7500 federal tax credit, at least for a little bit. So you're talking about a crew cab, 4wd truck with 426hp, 775 ft-lbs, and super low running costs for low $30s. It's not "truck" enough for a small segment of hardcore truck people , but it's pretty great, and cheaper than its ICE equivalent
Yes, I saw the frunk. TO me, that's the most exciting part about that whole truck.
That commercial truck sounds pretty great. Will be watching...
Mr_Asa said:Driven5 said:The more impressive the numbers get, the more they leave me cold... It's an odd feeling.
I just picture more and more people having access to these performance numbers. They're getting to the point where the human is the lagging point. I don't see anything good (as an enthusiast) coming from that
As a motorcyclist who is already quite alarmed by inattentive drivers, I see a lot of bad coming from it. Let's put the screen obsessed public in 9000 lbs (Hummer) rocket ships. Yeah. That'll work for all of us.
Keith Tanner said:In other words, the perfect thing to get all excited about on the internet - someone was viewed as cheating while not setting an official time at an arbitrary task :)
Well, if you have to put it that way...Isn't that the whole point of the Internet? 
Toyman01 + Sized and said:Driven5 said:The more impressive the numbers get, the more they leave me cold... It's an odd feeling.
Quoted for truth.
Give me a basic truck that can do an 8-10 second 0-60, has a 500+ mile range, and can tow 5000 pounds 250 miles, for under $40k. Then we can talk.
My 2019 Colorado Z71 beats most of those specs handily. Range is about 400 miles, but 0-60 is lot quicker, I can tow 7500 lbs 250 miles easily, and it was well under $40 new. It's also been in some crap offroad most Jeep owners would be frightened of. I think my kidneys still hurt over a year later.
This is a bit like the tire thread... everyone wants it all while failing to realize how amazing auto tech really is right now. I can buy family sedans that will destroy the legendary musclecars of Detroit's glory days in every measure of auto performance ever derived. Computers and tire technology made it all possible.
The only thing limiting EVs still is battery technology. Lithium Ion batteries are not the end game. When someone comes up with a battery that has a better power density and is less expensive, electric cars will be here to stay and make mass replacement viable. I routinely watch news on battery tech, because I want to invest in the new technology early.
While you're watching batteries for the Next Big Thing, pay attention to the gradual constant improvements in lithium ion.
Can you actually tow 5000+ lbs 250 miles on a tank? I'd expect 10 mpg on a gas truck, which means you need a 25.01 gallon tank.
Keith Tanner said:While you're watching batteries for the Next Big Thing, pay attention to the gradual constant improvements in lithium ion.
Can you actually tow 5000+ lbs 250 miles on a tank? I'd expect 10 mpg on a gas truck, which means you need a 25.01 gallon tank.
I can tow 5000+ lbs on a 20 gallon tank 250 miles. I've done it a few times already, and at 70-75 mph in a Chevy Colorado. A Uhaul trailer plus an SN95 Mustang twice, once can be confirmed by a member of this forum as I met them. I'd estimate my range at 280-300 towing 5000# at 70 mph easily. You underestimate the efficiency of modern IC engines which is surprising how many LS engines you've put into Miatas. LS engines and their smaller V6 counterparts make lots of power and get good mileage with stock profile camshafts. It's the big cam cars that throw mileage to the side.
A tank of gas is $60 or so right now. A trailer rental is about $65 for day. If you want to bet $300 on it, I'll have my buddy record it on video for posterity. I was towing I-35 and I-30 before and they are not flat. I could easily beat this towing I-20 headed west out of DFW all day long. Once you get past the hilly part of south dallas, it's all flat all the way to I-20 ends. We can tow my 96 Camaro SS, or the Subaru Impreza or Boxster S. I know the Camaro is the porker of the bunch.
And on a side note, I'm well of aware of what lithium ion batteries can and cannot do. I have other hobbies that started using them long before they hit highways. Even in model aviation there is a size where battery cost becomes prohibitive and heavier than dino fuels. The electric motors are plenty powerful enough but the size and mass of the battery packs becomes a real problem. I also have my batteries stored in fire resistant bags in a safe location. Once you see a li-ion battery fire it'll leave an impression.
Keith Tanner said:While you're watching batteries for the Next Big Thing, pay attention to the gradual constant improvements in lithium ion.
Can you actually tow 5000+ lbs 250 miles on a tank? I'd expect 10 mpg on a gas truck, which means you need a 25.01 gallon tank.
Reason #2 why I greatly prefer to drive the competition car to events instead of tow. Why should I buy a truck and a trailer to get 16mpg when I could drive the car and get 20-25ish towing a tire trailer?
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