I want a halfcage for my audi tt but I don't have much cash to shell out for a premade one (they're around 700-900$)
https://www.rhodesracecars.com/4-Point-Roll-Bar--BEETLE-Old-Style_p_9297.html
I see these around $200.
looks like you have to do the welding and cutting yourself.
Is that safe to do? I'm assuming that as long as you have the bars in the proper position, and the mounting points are beefy, wide, and strong,
then should be just as good as a premade one ?
The first one needs a diagonal cross bar to make it effective.
The second one is just the main hoop, not a full kit per the description. The main hoop as illustrated has enough cross bracing to be good but for that price I'm thinking all you get is the actual hoop by itself.
Neither of those are designed for your Audi TT. Who do you have that can weld it correctly/safely?
A cage isnt something that you just want to try doing.
Stop trying to do everything the cheapest way possible, it wont make for a safe or enjoyable car, and you will regret most of the choices you have made
I think the answer to this question can be found in the "frustrated with fabrication" thread.
In reply to ShinnyGroove (Forum Supporter) :
Probably also didn't need to start out with a WIY[1] kit.
Even Lemons & co recognises that safety equipment costs real money. If you're making the effort to put additional safety equipment in the car, do it once and do it right.
[1] Weld It Yourself.
The first one is also ERW tubing which has a seam and is gradually being eliminated from use by rules that require DOM which is the standard, and adds $200 to the price of the first one, which doesn't fit your car anyway.
Roll Cage Components in VA has an excellent reputation for selling custom pre-bent kits for you to then notch and weld together in your car. If they don't already have your car in the system they can tell you what measurements they need.
Depending on what group you run the car with you may need to understand the material requirements for the tubing in the cage. Those cages from Summit or Jegs are usually made from ERW tube. Groups like SCCA generally require DOM tube. If you don't know the difference, you should differ to the rule book for whatever group you run with. If you're just wanting a cage to do track days the ERW will work fine as long as it fits properly and is properly welded. As others have said, the cage is not the place to scrimp. From personal experience (twice!), it's nice to see your intact cage from the inside of the car when it comes to rest after rolling over. 
Sonic said:Roll Cage Components in VA has an excellent reputation for selling custom pre-bent kits for you to then notch and weld together in your car. If they don't already have your car in the system they can tell you what measurements they need.
I used a kit from them for my 318ti race car, and was very pleased with it.
Premade is one option. Another is to make friends with a local fabricator or go down to the local race shop and ask. Before having a roll bar put into my project I did a lot of similar research and the premades are a lot of work, especially the more "budget" that you get. Look at it this way, a $200 roll bar is a $700 roll bar with $500 less work done by the company. You will have to measure, cut, fit, and weld the bar since they provide bends and overlong lengths. You also may need to have freight shipping on your order, this is not cheap either.
I would strongly encourage you to raise your standard for your safety equipment and have a quality roll bar installed. There is a point of diminishing returns but a budget bar + budget install is pretty dang sketchy. Look up some local people, call them and ask what their price would be for the job. It hurts nothing to ask and get those data points and at best you wind up with a proper, custom fitted roll bar.
I would refer back to this thread and re read it about 5 times ...
You just need to budget $1000 for a roll bar and then scrimp and save accordingly. Roll bars for some cars (e.g. Miatas) can be had for less because of economies of scale, but you're not going to get anything safe for less than a grand. I tried to go down the budget road before and it never works out.
Add in proper seats, mounts, harnesses, and a HANS device and going from OEM safety gear to the bare minimum of acceptable aftermarket safety gear is a minimum $3000 expense. It sucks, and I feel your frustration. We pretend that it's easy, cheap, and fun to track your car, but by your 2nd or 3rd event we start clucking our tongues about doing it with stock brakes and tires and safety gear.
There a bolt in kit for MK4 VW that is available? If so you can likely get that fit by shortening and rewelding the bolt in plates to get the proper fitment. By that time you may have already hit the budget for custom, as a half cage isn't so spendy.
Seems people focusing on the rules, but usually you don't need these things unless you are doing wheel to wheel or drag racing pretty quick. I would generally chose NONE over something not required as doing something half assed may be more dangerous than not at all.
When prepping a car for track duty, you need to keep this in mind, there are other people on-track with you who want to go home at the end of the day. Finding the "a cheapest" everything for your car just because you want to go and drive around on the track won't just hurt you, it could result in you hurting someone else. Inexpensive tires, eBay coilovers, cobbled together or mix and match pieces to make that BIG brake kit, the cheap quick release for your steering wheel could all cause mechanical failures. Not only can that cause an issue with your car, but for those around you as well.
If you can't afford the money for quality part on the car that involves your safety or the safety of others, please continue to save until you can. A rollbar or rollcage should either be manufactured by a company for your specific vehicle or fabricated for your particular car at whatever level of interior preparation and class you are going to run. Universal fit rollbar, those made from ERW or even worse "black pipe", yes some circle track bodies still allow for this spec, should be avoided at all costs. Custom bars aren't really that much as long as you bring the car to the fabricator stripped and ready for welding.
Sorry for the rant, but I get very upset having to go out on track with vehicles that aren't really prepped to an appropriate standard.
If this is too blunt, oh well, I'm not very PC especially when it can come to someone's life even if it is your own. We all want to enjoy the sport and have it continue.
Tadope said:I'm assuming that as long as you have the bars in the proper position, and the mounting points are beefy, wide, and strong,
then should be just as good as a premade one ?
You assume wrong. There is much more to it. Do your homework, save your money, and pay someone qualified to do it.
I guess I have to disagree. You should know if your welds are good. If you can fit and weld tubes together, Then go for it.
I cheat on cars with a roof. I figure out where to weld the braces in and then I use a hole saw to cut it open on the roof. Do the top of the weld and then MiG weld the hole back in place. More than a few just don't weld the top of the brace at all.
In reply to frenchyd :
Turn 11 a Laguna is not the place to find out if your welds are good and how well the discount parts are working.
Please, there is no such thing as a "half cage". That is a rollbar.
In reply to BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) :
Modern cars are designed to survive a roll over accident. If you spend an extra $1000 and it came with a warranty that you will never die driving that car. Sure that would be worth while.
Racing is dangerous. I've never seen a fatal racing accident where a better rollcage would have made a difference. Not that it never makes a difference but it's very rare.
In my whole life of racing I've seen maybe three cars wind up on their roof. ( all walked away ) I hear a lot of people tell newbies you gotta buy this, spend this, have this.
They are the ones risking their life. If he wants to weld his roll cage If it meets the requirements and passes tech, shut up!
BoxheadTim (Forum Supporter) said:Turn 11 a Laguna is not the place to find out if your welds are good and how well the discount parts are working.
11 is a fairly slow corner, perhaps you mean 6 or 9? :)
As for DIY fabrication, it depends a lot on your skill level. Mine is terrible so I outsource all the safety-critical stuff to a pro but those pros all started somewhere, right? If Tadope has done a bunch of other welding/etc and is comfortable with the idea that he's trusting his life to his skill, then starting with a fairly simple roll bar on his own car doesn't seem unreasonable.
But yes, at a minimum it sounds like there's a bunch of homework to be done on materials, techniques, requirements, etc.
Pete. (l33t FS) said:Please, there is no such thing as a "half cage". That is a rollbar.
THANK YOU. I've been wanting to say this but it comes out with different words.
From what I've read I think he wants a "half arced cage"
I have built every cage I've ever raced. It's not rocket science. It's not even that hard with the right tools and knowledge.
However, building a cage or welding a pre-bent cage is not the place to learn how to weld. I have been building with steel and welding since I was 12. Call it 30 years of practice and busted welds before I ever welded the first piece of tube.
If you do not know how to weld, pay someone to weld it for you.
If you want to learn, contact your local community college. They probably offer classes.
In reply to frenchyd :
If it meets requirements and passes tech, sure. To be blunt, so far the OP has posted very little that would indicate he has the skill or knowledge to make that within his purview. Some people might believe something is better than nothing when it comes to bars, but not sure if I agree with that.
Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:I have built every cage I've ever raced. It's not rocket science. It's not even that hard with the right tools and knowledge.
However, building a cage or welding a pre-bent cage is not the place to learn how to weld. I have been building with steel and welding since I was 12. Call it 30 years of practice and busted welds before I ever welded the first piece of tube.
If you do not know how to weld, pay someone to weld it for you.
If you want to learn, contact your local community college. They probably offer classes.
Yes it's a skill. When you hire that skill done you've lost the opportunity to learn. We complain that so few go into construction trades but fail to teach and demonstrate children ourselves.
How many other opportunities will be lost by having "experts" do it for him? How many people will avoid racing all together because the cost of hiring all these experts is too expensive?
$1000 here a $1000 there, pretty soon you're talking real money.
In the end this is GRASS ROOTS MOTORSPORTS. not hire the pros motorsports.
If the $$ is that much of an issue: I’d stick with the stock safety equipment, get some track time, and save up the cash to go all in on seats/harness/roll bar down the road.
Nothing wrong with welding your own cage if you start with good stuff (and make sure you are doing good work) but maybe a $200 plain mild steel rollbar kit isn’t “good stuff?”
With all due respect, the OP never even said he was gonna race. This could be a street car with an ill-fitting roll bar. (Which we would all agree is a E36 M3ty idea)
We are all making a ton of assumptions.
Frenchy, yes I agree that it's great to learn new skills. But before we go spouting off on that kind of stuff, we really should ask a few more questions. The OP apparently doesn't know how to identify the right type or size of tubing, has no knowledge of plate sizes, diagonal bar placement, attachment guidelines, tubing wall thickness, inspection holes, or frankly anything. Why assume he knows how to weld (or even has a welder)?
If this is his first attempt at welding, it could cost a LOT more than having a pro do it. Plus, it might never pass a tech inspection.
I love encouraging people to try new things (and you are pretty good at it), but sometimes it's better to ask questions and listen then to try to prove how much we know. Ask some questions first before offering advice.
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