WS70's are very good winter tires. When buying new, I go with the narrowest winter tire with the appropriate load capacity. When buying used, I go for newest mold date.
WS70's are very good winter tires. When buying new, I go with the narrowest winter tire with the appropriate load capacity. When buying used, I go for newest mold date.
captdownshift wrote: On snow they're a world changer, on ice they'll make a difference, but nothing without studs makes a vast difference when it comes time to stop.
This well-worn Tire Rack video would seem to indicate that winter tires, even studless ones, make a pretty substantial difference on very slick (ice rink) ice. Tire rack ice rink test.
I think your statement used to be true, maybe a decade or two ago, but today it is simply not the case that all-seasons are as good as studless winter tires on ice.
Our vehicles all run Michelin Latitude X-Ice rubber and the amount of grip and maneuverability we retain on an icy parking lot is startling.
snow tires will change your life. give you a whole new perspective, man.
Alright alright alright.
ShadowSix wrote:captdownshift wrote: On snow they're a world changer, on ice they'll make a difference, but nothing without studs makes a vast difference when it comes time to stop.This well-worn Tire Rack video would seem to indicate that winter tires, even studless ones, make a pretty substantial difference on very slick (ice rink) ice. Tire rack ice rink test. I think your statement used to be true, maybe a decade or two ago, but today it is simply not the case that all-seasons are as good as studless winter tires on ice. Our vehicles all run Michelin Latitude X-Ice rubber and the amount of grip and maneuverability we retain on an icy parking lot is startling.
Studless snow/ice tires (much different animal than a studdable tire without the studs) definitely help a lot on ice. The colder the ice is (less surface moisture), the smaller the performance gap between studs and studless gets. Near-freezing ice is when studs help the most.
In reply to AngryCorvair:
I finally checked the date codes. They were all 2013's, mostly latter in the year (pair of 33's, one 46 and a 41). So they're technically 3 years old. they've been stored in a garage for 2 years from the PO in bags.
In reply to Bobzilla:
They will be fine for a couple years at least. Mine are 2012 and have tons of grip on snow and ice.
My WS-60's were 8 years old and half worn before I detected, it seemed, any deterioration of grip.
I probably could have kept them but they would be getting close to the 10 yr. mark. I debated all fall before I made the jump to the WS-80's.
I gave the old ones away, with full disclosure.
Finally snowed. very light, not much on hte ground. But instead of 4-gear wheelspin from 1500rpms I have to now get super stupid. throttle on wheelspin doesnt occur past 3rd gear and now doesn't hit until 2500-3000rpms, full throttle wheelspin that is. Before it was part throttle at 1500-2000.
SO far, great purchase. Car is now drivable.
a recent article in Motor Trend magazine throws the whole theory of narrow tires for snow out the window.
405/70x15 with very low pressure is the answer.
iceracer wrote: a recent article in Motor Trend magazine throws the whole theory of narrow tires for snow out the window. 405/70x15 with very low pressure is the answer.
I've always been in the "don't go super wide, but don't go pizza cutter either" camp. In very deep snow where you don't want to sink too far to avoid dragging body parts, wide is good. On ice, hardpack or fresh snow that packs well, more contact patch is good (acts kinda like pavement). It's only in a few inches of wet snow or in slush that narrow tires do better (these are the only times you want to cut through anything).
OK.... I totally get it. still snowing here, went to lunch to fill up and buy snacks. I am now "that guy" in the snow. I can't imagine a subaru with these on all 4 corners.
Bobzilla wrote: OK.... I totally get it. still snowing here, went to lunch to fill up and buy snacks. I am now "that guy" in the snow. I can't imagine a subaru with these on all 4 corners.
Sounds like you discovered the difference between "it's driveable in the snow" and "the snow is totally no big deal"
In reply to rslifkin:
I've driven in this crap my entire life. This car was one of the worst I've ever had though. It's just NOW drivable.
Bobzilla wrote: OK.... I totally get it. still snowing here, went to lunch to fill up and buy snacks. I am now "that guy" in the snow. I can't imagine a subaru with these on all 4 corners.
I owned one for 1.5 winters. It was just completely silly being able to go anywhere. Anytime. No concerns. I actually sold it because it was kind of unnecessarily overkill and not worth the MPG hit the rest of the time. If the weather was bad enough to actually need the Subaru's capabilities, either there was a snow emergency declared and I shouldn't reeeeeally have been out, or the roads are going to be blocked by other stuck idiots anyway so why bother?
Back to (2) FWD cars with snow tires and (1) Miata with snow tires, and I can still get everywhere I need to. But I shouldn't venture out at 2am in 8" of fresh unplowed powder for a WaWa run just-because. Oh well. Last time I did that, the parking lot had 2 other Subarus and 4 snowmobiles. :D
Bobzilla wrote: OK.... I totally get it. still snowing here, went to lunch to fill up and buy snacks. I am now "that guy" in the snow. I can't imagine a subaru with these on all 4 corners.
A WRX on snow tires is just magic! You actually go out looking for unplowed roads. The only downside is that you don't stop any better, but you soon learn to use the gas to rotate the car and keep haulin!
NGTD wrote:Bobzilla wrote: OK.... I totally get it. still snowing here, went to lunch to fill up and buy snacks. I am now "that guy" in the snow. I can't imagine a subaru with these on all 4 corners.A WRX on snow tires is just magic! You actually go out looking for unplowed roads. The only downside is that you don't stop any better, but you soon learn to use the gas to rotate the car and keep haulin!
And then you find the point where the snow is so deep that stopping is no problem anyway, at least from any speed you can reasonably maintain in those conditions.
We are expecting 6-9" tonight here. In North Carolina.
Being the only person with snow tires, I'm going to be 'that guy' tonight/tomorrow. Then again, I'll also probably be the only person on the road.
Driving home last night from work, I was the only guy in the snow covered left lane on the highway and was able to safely keep the Mazda a bit under the speed limit. The right lane was mostly clear and plodding along at about 40 mph, and someone swerved into my lane just after I passed them by and nearly lost control.
They meekly settled back into the slow lane and rejoined the herd. 
It only took me a few more minutes than normal to get home, I LOVE my snows!
Sounds exactly like some of my experiences.
In reply to Bobzilla: Minnesota; We get a lot of snow, land of 10,000+ lakes and the source of three major rivers. We feed the Great Lakes, the Mississippi, and Hudson's bay.
So I have decades of experience driving in snow and ice. As far as I'm concerned Blizzacks are the only snow tires.. But they come off as soon as the temps hit 45 (and don't go on until snow threatens) Don't ruin them by running them in the summer.
If you must compromise Michelin aren't bad but not as good on ice as Blizzacks.
Now the truth. Driving in snow/ice requires a skill set most simply don't have. Not even here in Minnesota
but it's great fun.. like racing at the absolute limit but instead of triple digit speeds, you're at 1/2 the speed limit or less.
rslifkin wrote:iceracer wrote: a recent article in Motor Trend magazine throws the whole theory of narrow tires for snow out the window. 405/70x15 with very low pressure is the answer.I've always been in the "don't go super wide, but don't go pizza cutter either" camp. In very deep snow where you don't want to sink too far to avoid dragging body parts, wide is good. On ice, hardpack or fresh snow that packs well, more contact patch is good (acts kinda like pavement). It's only in a few inches of wet snow or in slush that narrow tires do better (these are the only times you want to cut through anything).
Ice racers disagree with you. Skinny tires with studs allow astonishingly fast speeds, and they use the snow on the edge of the track as assort of Berm, like sprint car drivers do to get even faster speeds
Well, we have had our first (and last) snow of the year. I took the ZAV to work. If I hadn't, it would have been a "WFH" day, or no "WFH" at all, as I don't bring my laptop home and the network is so secure there's no outside access anyway. The tires on the LX, Yokohama terrain something or others, have about 1/3 the traction of snows. So off to (GRM advertiser) Tire Rack Dot Com. No General Altimax Artics in my size. Off to (GRM advertiser) eBay. Got 4 on the way for a little over five bills. I can now guarantee that as soon as I find some wheels and get these things all mounted up, we will not have another flake of snow or any ice for the rest of the year.
ProDarwin wrote: We are expecting 6-9" tonight here. In North Carolina. Being the *only* person with snow tires, I'm going to be 'that guy' tonight/tomorrow. Then again, I'll also probably be the only person on the road.
You should quickly sign up for Uber, you'll pretty much be able to name your price. My BIL lives in Wilmington after living in Michigan most of his life. He posted a pic of his yard a few years ago when EVERYTHING was closed. You could still see the grass . . .
I was talking to my friend in Toronto once. I told him we had 6" of snow on the ground. He said: "We call that 'a dusting.'"
I considered uber and determined it to be not worth it. But that's a good point, sign up for snow storms and drive for more money when I'd be screwing around on the road anyway.
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