AngryCorvair wrote: dude, i will totally go all internet tough guy on you. best you just find some other GRM car to buy, before my keyboard licks your monitor's ass!
I made an Angry salad tosser!
AngryCorvair wrote: dude, i will totally go all internet tough guy on you. best you just find some other GRM car to buy, before my keyboard licks your monitor's ass!
I made an Angry salad tosser!
IMHO, enough!! We all love what GRM is and wouldn't have it any other way. As mentioned, there have been articles on more expensive cars than BMW. BMW has a percieved notion that when new are high class cars but suffer from heavy deprecriciation as they age to make them grassroots. But for us to like the depreciated BMW does say something about them. Mainly we (or at least me) love the variety that other mags don't delve into, which is what made me a reader in the first place. I started with the sister rag (CM) and found GRM through that and now recieve both in the mail. I probably could afford a BMW myself (as so could other here if they chose) but choose to own what I have instead (a 99 Miata, 70 Opel GT & 63 Midget plus a truck and the wifes Camry, all paid for). Although if I had a new BMW I couldn't have all the other toys though. I have friends that are into `vettes, probably could afford one myself (at least a C4) but again choose many cheaper over one more expensive. rant over 
Back to your regularly scheduled program. 
You're all wrong and totally misunderstand the true meaning of "grassroots".
You're so wrong, it boggles my mind that you can be so mentally deficient to hold the opinions that you do.
Rob_Mopar wrote:Greg Voth wrote: In case some people feel that the sky is falling, there are still people like me at the office. I own four cars currently, none newer than 1984, none I paid more than $2,500 for. Three RX-7s and a Dodge Aspen.Tell us more about the Aspen. Will it be turned into a 335I killer?
Tempting but doubtful. It is a slant six automatic grandma car with 21,XXX original miles. It will be my "reliable" ride. RIGHT..... reliable. But hey it was $250.
I have ridden in the 335i on track and driven it on the street. It would likely cost almost as much as the 335i to make it hang with it on track.
ddavidv wrote: Another "what is grassroots?" case in point: My BMW E30 cost $1000. Pretty grassroots, huh? Yeah, and then I turned it into a Spec E30 car. Did all the work myself other than weld the cage kit together (though I did hold stuff and grind things to fit. And put out fires under the car). Even painted it myself with a roller. Ultra grassroots, right? Yeah, and I've got nearly 9 grand tied up in that thing now. Still grassroots? Hmmmm. All a matter of where you're standing and what you intend to accomplish.
What region you in? And are you running right now or still building?
Greg Voth wrote:Rob_Mopar wrote:Tempting but doubtful. It is a slant six automatic grandma car with 21,XXX original miles. It will be my "reliable" ride. RIGHT..... reliable. But hey it was $250. I have ridden in the 335i on track and driven it on the street. It would likely cost almost as much as the 335i to make it hang with it on track.Greg Voth wrote: In case some people feel that the sky is falling, there are still people like me at the office. I own four cars currently, none newer than 1984, none I paid more than $2,500 for. Three RX-7s and a Dodge Aspen.Tell us more about the Aspen. Will it be turned into a 335I killer?
TOTALLY GRASSROOTS PROJECT CAR! Get slantvaliant to knock together another Megasquirt and turbo, put some stiff ass springs and adjustable shocks under it, go junkyard divin' for a 4 or 5 speed box (maybe a Mustang T56 to keep it cheap) and big brakes off a big Mopar, put some fat stickies on it and go embarrass that douchey poseur you have for a boss. 
i didnt read the whole 6 or 7 pages, but im not a big bmw fan, but i still enjoy those articles as well.., E36 M3, i like all flavors of car, and when them there beemers sell for $1200 bucks ill know exactly what to do to it... and that might be in a few weeks the way the economy is going..
But really, i just want dibs on the cannon on the caprice....
Once again, a thread has devolved inot a discussion of what is and what isn't "grassroots". I may as well give my perspective.
I received my first issue unsolicited issue of GRM in the mail in 1993. At the time I was contemplating trying autocross. The cover story was about whether the CRX (the CRX was a fairly late model car at the time was the greatest autocross car ever. I thought GRM was a Godsend. Here I was contemplating autocross, the epitome of grassroots motorsports, and this magazine falls in my lap. From that day onward, I thought of GRM being about amateur and semi-professional motorsport competition using cars that were realistically attainable. GRM has never deviated from this them.
However, somewhere along the way, some readers have equated GRM with Junkyard Motorsports. Somewhere along the way, some readers have equated autocross and SCCA / NASA amateur racing as being elitist. Grassroots Motorsports is just that, motorsports which can realistically be partaken of by the average person. In this case the average person is someone with a reasonable income using easily obtainable equipment. It is not a version of Junkyard Wars.
Before any of you consider me elitist consider my collection of automotive bastards. I have a 1984 Charger 2.2 (my first autocross car which later served as a daily driver for my daughter and is now slated to do some hillclimbing), a 1989 Shelby Dakota (E-bay find), a 1999 Neon DOHC Coupe (bit new for $11,500 in 1999), a 1985 Mazda RX-7 (a project with my son Tommy) and my daily driver and trailer puller (race car and boat) 2007 Dakota Quad V8. My wife owns her own 2007 Cailber R/T and my daughter (college student and hockey player) owns a 1998 Impreza wagon (lowered , KYB AGX, etc.).
I would say that this is a fairly "grassroots" collection of cars. GRM should not change a thing.
Tempting but doubtful. It is a slant six automatic grandma car with 21,XXX original miles. It will be my "reliable" ride. RIGHT..... reliable. But hey it was $250.
TOTALLY GRASSROOTS PROJECT CAR! Get slantvaliant to knock together another Megasquirt and turbo, put some stiff ass springs and adjustable shocks under it, go junkyard divin' for a 4 or 5 speed box (maybe a Mustang T56 to keep it cheap) and big brakes off a big Mopar, put some fat stickies on it and go embarrass that douchey poseur you have for a boss.
A whole lot of tire can be put under an Aspen. They have very generous wheel wells. I've seen Mustang Bullitt wheels on them with 255/60/17's at all 4 corners. It was a 5th Ave, but it's in the F-M-J family.
I would recommend loosing the rubber isolators for the K-frame. Cast iron replacements were available a long time ago. Some aluminum ones are out there now along with polyurethane.
The front brake upgrade Jensenman mentioned is pretty easy but will require 15" wheels. Just find a late '70's Cordoba or similar B-body in a yard for the caliper adapters.
Just about any Chrysler motor can fit in there too. B/RB (383-440) weren’t offered from the factory but they do fit. I'd probably try a 360 Magnum with matching 518 trans from Ram or Ram Van. The T56 would be nice but pricey.
If you want to keep it a slant, if it's one of the ones stuck with the single 1bbl carb, find a Super Six setup for it. It's the factory 2bbl. You'll need the kickdown linkage as well. It's unique to the 2bbl setup. The car will perform better and MPGs will pick up a little too. I do like the idea of a turbo Megasquirted 225 though.
As for the whole BMW grassroots/not grassroots thing, it's all good. I dig the magazine for the variety. The cars I have don’t really fall under either of their titles, but I thoroughly enjoy reading them. Even learned a few things along the way.
I don't consider the $200x Challenges grassroots. That's more like frost line motorsports. And one day I'll do it.
-Rob
John Brown wrote:AngryCorvair wrote: dude, i will totally go all internet tough guy on you. best you just find some other GRM car to buy, before my keyboard licks your monitor's ass!I made an Angry salad tosser!
Dude-I don't care who you are, that's funny!
Per Schroeder wrote: My Neons were totally worth $100 and $500.
You effing fancey pants sell out. Did ya get a free manicure with them richie rich?
Okay, as Margie told you, I have been thrashing night and day trying to get the GT6+ done for the PRI show and keeping this whole magzine thing moving forward in an economy that is not easy.
The most ironic thing about all this is that while the 335i is an amazing car, I got the E30 M3 finished and decided it really fit my personality better, I felt David had worked his ass off and we didn't have a lot of extra money laying around, so I would let him live the high-life for a while and drive the 335i. Guess that further proves that I am a mean spirited, money grubbing, BMW driving dick I guess.
To answer some more questions... I am sorry about what one of the stories said, or supposedly said, but BMW loaned us the car and as Margie pointed out, we have several expenses associated with the car. You need to remember, that we have about 20 cars that we are juggling, every story goes through several editors and proof readers and I assure you we were not out to deceive or trick anyone. We are a small company and we just could not field the variety of project cars we do without some help form car companies and parts suppliers.
Yeah, we like cars, but we work our butts off, mostly nights and weekends building and racing all these cars so that we can give you better editorial and form meaningful relationships with both readers and parts suppliers.
As for the new 335i, if I wasn't so cheap, I would buy one of these cars with my own money. The style, safety, motorsports history and performance of this car are unrivaled, in my opinion. It also gets nearly 30 mpg on the highway. Yes, I think this makes this car worthy of the price tag. As someone pointed out, used, it is an incredibly good bargain.
Obviously everyone has a different income and a different idea of what grassroots is. As someone pointed out, it is tough to make a living selling ads to companies when all you have is poor, cheap readers that buy everything off eBay or out of a bone yard. And if you make upwards of $75,000 a year, like most of our readers, you probably don't have the time and patience to screw with an old Neon. That said, I have resisted the easy buck and stuck to my guns to offer a wide range of editorial to a wide range of enthusiasts. While my income and tastes may have changed, I try to put my reader's interests first.
Actually, a tour of my garage would show that while my income, (thank god) has gone up some, my tastes haven't changed. I just have more of the old crappy cars that I have always loved and I can take better care of them now. Someone mentioned our first issue ever and how much the magazine has changed since then. That's not true. The latest issue had Z Car vs. RX-7 and similar articles and so did the first issue.
Back to the BMW, I think what makes this $43,000 car a bargain is the fact that for just $10,000-15,000 more than a crappy boring new Camry, you can get world class safety, performance and panache. You can also go from 0-60 mph in five freaking seconds in a car that is completely practical, comfortable and economical. This is good. This is grassroots.
Okay, I need to get ready for the PRI show tomorrow, There I will be drinking, bragging, cavorting and showing off. Hmmm, maybe I will write a story about that too.
Tim Suddard wrote: Guess that further proves that I am a mean spirited, money grubbing, BMW driving dick I guess.
Join the club. We have cookies.
JeepinMatt wrote:Tim Suddard wrote: Guess that further proves that I am a mean spirited, money grubbing, BMW driving dick I guess.Join the club. We have cookies.
YOU ALL claim to have cookies, but never deliver. And I never got the G.S. cookies I ordered...
Moparman, I think you nailed it. I'm not going to list the cars in my garage because by some standards I'm a cheapskate, by others I'm a "checkbook builder" - that's a phrase that was used to describe my Locost build because I bought the frame. It's all relative. What is affordable depends on your circumstances.
Say hi to Bill for me, Tim!
Anyone notice that this was meant to piss us all off, yet it turned into a GRM love-fest? I love to see a troll's plan get twisted.
Tim Suddard wrote: The most ironic thing about all this is that while the 335i is an amazing car, I got the E30 M3 finished and decided it really fit my personality better, I felt David had worked his ass off and we didn't have a lot of extra money laying around, so I would let him live the high-life for a while and drive the 335i.
Wow, so many BMWs that they get tossed aside to the staff when they no longer fit your personality.
Tim Suddard wrote: Okay, I need to get ready for the PRI show tomorrow, There I will be drinking, bragging, cavorting and showing off. Hmmm, maybe I will write a story about that too.
Please do, the closest some of us come to having a life is reading about other people's
Appleseed wrote: Anyone notice that this was meant to piss us all off, yet it turned into a GRM love-fest? I love to see a troll's plan get twisted.
Ya ain't it great? And thanks again Tim for a great magazine. As far as I can tell there is only one person that seems to have a problem with it and hopefully he is long gone.
Tim,
The mag HAS changed. Staffers instead of stringers write most of the articles, the pics are in color, the type is a bit larger (thankfully because we're older now) and the RX-7 or Z car need some restoration as well as some hopping up. It's better than it's ever been.
I still like my idea of posting the first issue on the web or reprinting it as an anniversary insert. It would be fun to see where it all started.
Yes, the thread turned into a love-in. Just like when the Grinch stole Christmas, yet all the citizens of Who-ville came together, sang the song with bizarre lyrics and basked in the warm glow of their.....Okay, that's gotta stop. Gotta go mount the new control arms or something else equally manly.
The OP is such an E36 M3!!!!!
He is obviously an inbred hick, and potentially a bigot. So my guess is that unless someone is talking about a Camaro they are a snob in this guy's mind.
I'm so glad everyone came to the mag's (and Tim's) defense. No one else does it like GRM and as long as they don't start doing 100% new car test drives (BOOOOORING) it is all good with me!
Now I'm going to go be all elitist and look up parts for my '99 M3....all while WISHING I could afford a 2009 Chevy Surburban LTZ ($50,000 sticker)!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ignorance is frustrating.
Jerry From LA wrote: I still like my idea of posting the first issue on the web or reprinting it as an anniversary insert. It would be fun to see where it all started.
+1k!
As a young'un, I'd really like to see first hand where my favorite magazine started. If they could be reprinted, I'd buy one from the online store.
Jerry, I also thought that was a sweet idea, but it looks like it may be difficult to do. We're not sure we still have a copy that would survive scanning.
Keith wrote: Moparman, I think you nailed it. I'm not going to list the cars in my garage because by some standards I'm a cheapskate, by others I'm a "checkbook builder" - that's a phrase that was used to describe my Locost build because I bought the frame. It's all relative. What is affordable depends on your circumstances. Say hi to Bill for me, Tim!
lets all be like keith and whip out the checkbook and buy LS1's for swaps - oh wait i've done that twice in the last year. damn checkbook building hypocrites with their corvettes and their mgb's. send me a pm if you need any more pics or info on s10 axles since i've got a little time next week.
I wouldn't say that GRM has lost the spirit of grassroots entirely, but it's funny to me how the forum doesn't mesh with the print mag much these days. The forum seems to be focused on what $500 POS can be turned into a fun build. Junkyard searching, locost builds, cheap wheels/tires etc. I think that content has shifted the definition of “grassroots” down a bit.
The mag seems to be new BMWs, “budget” supercar articles, and testing bolt on parts for a WRX. That’s what appears to have nothing to do with “grassroots.” The challenge obviously gets a lot of attention, and rightly so. If you pay attention to both the forum and mag, you get an interesting cross section. But if you just get the mag, I would agree that some of the "grassroots" has left.
My only real "gripe" with the mag is that I tend to see the same basic articles regurgitated over and over and over. I could probably find an equivalent “budget supercars” article in three or four issues spanning the last 5 to 6 years. Likewise, how many damn profiles do we need on the BMW M series? Apparently, every single year.
Don’t get me wrong, I love the mag. But even in my shortish 8-9 years of reading it, things have changed. I tend to pay attention more to the blogs and project car articles, as those are far more interesting to me than another M3 profile, or Boxster S ride and drive…
Chris H. -just my 2 cents
Yeah, they really should have included articles on something like, how to build a super-cheap rally-x car. Or a showdown between iconic classic sportscars that are still affordable, and a discussion of how well they've weathered and perform by modern car standards.
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