Tire Choices - Everybody's Favorite Topic!

Hey all,

I love talking about tires. It's probably the only thing that can consistently make anybody faster. 

Background: 

2020 Subaru WRX, 2 sets of the ugly OEM 17x8 wheels. No suspension mods (yet). Will have the "daily" set and the "go racing" set.

I'm not incredibly competitive, I enjoy seat time more than competition (although I'll brag about my lap times if they're fast). 

Local go karting track does Time Attack nights every 2-3 weeks, the track is small enough to where you won't gain any considerable temperature in the tires but because it's a go karting track it can be rough on tires due to the tightness. 

I enjoy autocross from the driving perspective, not so much the competition perspective.

I'd like to start doing HPDE events in the future because I like the amount of seat time I can get. 

What I'm looking for: 

Nothing that is a max attack tire. That means no RE71-R. Nothing that can't handle a little wet, either. I'm not competitive, but I also don't want to be SOL if it happens to rain. 

I want to swap wheels at home the night before an event and arrive and drive, not haul wheels to the event and swap at the event. Waste of time imo, since I'll need to arrive earlier, meaning I'll need to wake up earlier, and I like beauty sleep. 

This means it should have decent road manners (meaning it can shed water OK, it doesn't rain often in SoCal but when it does all the surface contaminants on the road get washed up). I don't care too much for noise since it's an arrive and drive second set of tires, and not my daily.

Tread life should be decent. Even though it's gonna be the "go racing" set, I don't want them to wear out after 2-3 sessions or even 2-3 track days. I'm expecting at the very least a full year's worth of driving to, in, and from, events assuming it's once per month. Let me know if I'm insane to consider that. 

Under $150/tire.

My Current Choices: 

Falken Azenis FK510 235/45R17 (cheapest of the bunch, Tire Rack says it's one of the better handling UHP tires).

Falken Azenis RT615K+ 225/45R17 (GRM comparison test against the RT660 and RE71-R is what sold me on the RT615K+ over the more expensive RE71-R and RT660).

Firestone Firehawk Indy 500 235/45R17 (Anecdotal evidence from friends/colleagues have said this was also a good bang/buck choice and is compared to the FK510 by Tire Rack).

Dunlop Sport Maxx RT (OEM Tire) 235/45R17 (Not super impressed by these, but I'll go with them again if similarly priced and performing tires can't outperform them). 

I'm currently leaning towards the RT615K+. The GRM testing shows that after a couple sessions, the wear seemed the least compared to the other two tires. Tire Rack says it also has great road manners for a performance tire. Thoughts? Anything else to consider? Thanks! 

I *think* I have FK510s on my BRZ. They seem to work OK on the road, but I'm not sure I'd want to track them.

I've tracked 615s on a Miata and they seem to wear well, and I think should be OK for SoCal weather.

I've got a set of the firehawks on my Ralliart wagon.  They are a great street Tire and have been very good in the rain, they were pretty good for a street tire at the one autocross event I've done with them.

I'll concede, that's a tough comparison, because my usual autocross car is a hard S Miata on rivals. 

I'll  throw in that that Tire rack has the Hankook R-S4 in that size on sale for $159 each. That's only $5 more than the RT-660s. Performance wise it seems like they fit inbetween the 615s and 660s.

RS4 is probably the answer. 615s might be fine but I'm not quite sure they're suited for the car. Plus now that the 660 is out who knows how much longer they'll be in production.

"Good wet" and "long lasting" are generally opposite ends of the spectrum unfortunately. I'd recommend getting something like conti ECS or michelin PSS/PS4S for DD tires and then just running on them if it's going to be wet.

The Conti ExtremeContact Sport is the answer here. Available in 225/45, 235/45, 245/45.

Conti ECS

dps214 said:

RS4 is probably the answer. 615s might be fine but I'm not quite sure they're suited for the car. Plus now that the 660 is out who knows how much longer they'll be in production.

CAinCA said:

I'll  throw in that that Tire rack has the Hankook R-S4 in that size on sale for $159 each. That's only $5 more than the RT-660s. Performance wise it seems like they fit inbetween the 615s and 660s.

What makes you think the 615s aren't suited for the car? Is it weight, size, etc.? 
I've been looking at reviews for the RS4, looks like they wear well, so it might be worth shelling out a little bit more now, so I don't need to buy them again in a long time. They're currently on sale but I'm not exactly in the market right now, so I'm going off their full price.

"Good wet" and "long lasting" are generally opposite ends of the spectrum unfortunately. I'd recommend getting something like conti ECS or michelin PSS/PS4S for DD tires and then just running on them if it's going to be wet.

Yeah, I have PS4S on standby as the DD tire. I suppose I'll just do that then. Thank you! 

In reply to z31maniac :

I'll take a look at the ECS as well, I keep seeing them pop up but at $166/tire for 235/45 that is pushing the budget a little bit. How do the Conti ECS compare to the RS4? Considering the RS4 prices are similar to the Conti ECS.

I'll add that the R-S4 is pretty decent in the rain. As in I was comfortable running them in the rain at Laguna Seca. Increase your air pressure a few pounds if it gets wet.

RS-4 245/40. loved mine

The Firehawks are the poor man's ECS. Do a price comparison between them and the continentals. Depending on the sizes they're close in price, or the Firehawks may be a lot cheaper. I'd definitely buy them again.

In reply to Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) :

The Firehawks beat out the ECS by at least $30/corner for the sizes I'm looking at. They're a strong contender, but the pricing is also rivaled by the RT615K+ and RT660 in the sizes I'm looking at.

Just to be clear they're a contender for DD tires, not track tires.

Floating Doc (Forum Supporter) said:

The Firehawks are the poor man's ECS. Do a price comparison between them and the continentals. Depending on the sizes they're close in price, or the Firehawks may be a lot cheaper. I'd definitely buy them again.

+1 for this. 

dps214 said:

Just to be clear they're a contender for DD tires, not track tires.

Also this.

.

Ah, yeah, my wallet would actually be happier with the RT660. I'm still strongly considering the RS4, though. I'm not a big fan of how the RT660 wears based on reviews, and everyone has said the RS4 wears very slowly compared to other tires in the 200TW category which is what I want. Not chasing lap times, just chasing seat time.

It really comes down to bite the pillow for the RS4, which at the rate of events I go to will last 1+ years, or take the chance with the RT660 and potentially have it wear out sooner.

Serious question, why are you limiting the budget to $150 per a tire? 

The reason I ask is if you go up to $200 per a tire and the tires last 20,000, for a set of four it's literally a price increase of a penny per a mile. 

Purchasing tires is like purchasing a mattress to me. They're vital to quality of life and performance and they affect pretty much everything else. They're the two of the 5 things in life that I recommend not shopping to a price point on. 

Can confirm the 615s wear like iron, for a 200tw anyway. I'm finally retiring my set after 3 full seasons of local auto x and 5-6k street miles. I could easily eek some more life out of them if I really wanted to, but they've been down on grip for a while and really started falling off mid season last year. They have more tread than heat cycles left in them.

In reply to captdownshift (Forum Supporter) :

That's a great question.

I think the primary reason is to lower the pain inflicted on my wallet because I had intended to buy both the daily set of tires and the sticky set of tires at the same time. However I can definitely see swapping the Dunlop Sport Maxx RTs on my daily wheel to the "go racing" set of wheels and get the new daily tire now, and then when I burn off the Dunlops I'll be ready for a more aggressive tire. 

With that being said what do you recommend in the $200 range other than the RS4? 

I ran the firehawks last weekend, they survived, but felt like they were holding me back a bit. I'd be interested to try the michelin pilot sports.

 Shopping for RT660s for my dedicated tire though. The firehawks are a great commuter so far though, and survived two high intensity rains

Since this is a dedicated set, I'd go with one of the 200tw options. Perhaps I'm off base,  I'd be concerned about chunking, or heat cycling out the >200tw with tens of hours of track usage. Plus you'd be going slower. Maybe that's not a concern, but in my slightly dated experience, it might be.

If you want to go really cheap, but some used >200tw tires. You can probably get a set for $150 for all 4. And get 10+ hours out of them. The past owner will have shaved the tread for you through driving and you'll get some decent track time out of them. Once you have more experience, you can enjoy a 200tw set.

In reply to Snrub :

Luckily for you (I guess for me), I have used >200tw tires with shaved tread in my possession. It's the tires that came on the car, and what I'm currently driving on as a daily tire. Dunlop Sport Maxx RT (again, not super impressed by them, but I have them already!)

So maybe I'll take your advice. Instead of buying a dedicated track and daily set at the same time, I will turn my daily set into the track set and get a softer daily set. Once they're burned off I'll be more willing to invest in the RS4s because I will only be buying one set of tires instead of two and have more experience to be able to use them.

Looking at A/S options (because I'd like to take my Subaru to the mountains during snowfall, because of course I do) but I don't need help on the daily options. I've already found a few I liked.

In reply to thashane :

Nice, although I think I've ruled out the Indy 500s because I will have 2 sets. One dedicated set for daily and one dedicated set for fun. The posts in this thread about the Indy 500 seem to lean towards "great as your only tire" but that's not really my scenario.

In reply to hunter47 :

Ya, I would agree. My plan is to keep the firehawks as fun commuters, and pickup some 660's or Rivals for events.

Not sure why you don't want RE-71's, they fit your use case pretty perfectly. Great in the wet, don't need much heat to get grippy, can stand up to some street driving. I wouldn't recommend them if it was your only set of tires on a DD, but for a 2nd set they're perfect. 

They're not the worst option, but they're definitely on the "good time not a long time" end of the wear/speed spectrum which isn't what he's looking for. Plus they're discontinued and even their closeout price is $20 more than the rs4.

In reply to dps214 :

Exactly, their wear rate and discontinued status put me off of them. 

Looks like I'll move the Dunlop Sport Maxx RT tires to my non-daily set and get a different daily tire for now, and when the Dunlops wear down I will put on a set of RS4s. The general consensus for a tire that wears like iron, provides decent grip in all of my performance driving scenarios, and are relatively affordable is the Hankook Ventus RS4.

Thanks everybody! 

In reply to hunter47 :

I'm not arguing for a tire that's out of higher price point, as honestly I think that the 660s are the answer. But I'm saying from a mindset one tire shopping for tires to be utilized on the street, that will last more than a year, as a whole, I don't understand shopping with an arbitrary budget limitation. That being said if there's a more cost effective option that test tire and gets the job done at a lower price point I'm certainly not against it.  But if there's an A+ tire, such as the Conti ECS (within the not a 200w but still fun and grippy segment) I don't understand saving money by getting a flava601 that doesn't have the real world feedback.