tire installation on nice wheels

So I got a set of nice Rays Wheels when I purchased my used Miata. Not knowing better I went to NTB to put on a new set of Falken RT-615. I brought just the wheels and tires to NTB. Their machine completely screwed up the inside of one of the wheels by gouging big deep lines into the wheel. The other three wheels have the 8 single point dots of pushed up metal. Previous to this install my wheels had tires on them with no visible marks - so I know it can be done without damage. NTB agreed they screwed up and agreed to have the wheels fixed. I talked at length to the NTB manager/owner and he indicated that at a minimum they would always place the 8 nicks in the wheels with a tire change.

So, what should I ask the tire place to be sure they can install tires without damage to the wheels? Is there a decent tire machine I should be looking for? Anyone know of a good tire place that knows how to handle wheels?

I worked at a couple Firestone stores in Iowa that could install wheels without this weird 8 dimple action you're talking about. The wheel was suspended using a sort of pogo-stick in the center, a spring loaded foot I guess, and then an arm that came out to run around the beat and spoon the tire onto the wheel.

I hate to say this but probably the best way to make sure this doesn't happen again is to stand there and watch the tech install the tires. If you see something suspect, stop him.

Several years ago we asked a trusted friend a simple question: Who does the best tire mounting job in town? Price didn't matter. However many years later, we're still using Rossi.

i would say if you are in Atlanta, Butler Tire does alot of high end and motorsport cars. When I worked there, I was constantly doing 944 cup and spec E30 wheels and tires, plus lambos and ferraris stopped by. We did halfass anything.

A tire machine that will grab the wheels from the outside will do much less damage in general. Mostly though, it depends on the tire tech doing the work. If they are careful and good, they shouldn't have a problem.

Stay away from chain stores, they'll hire anyone with a pulse to be a "tire jockey". Find a good indy or local race shop to mount your tires. The price will be the same or better and the guy mounting the tires probably won't be some stoned highschooler.

We had plastic covers for our machine for use on high end wheels so there was never any metal in contact with the wheel. You're only supposed to use the "teeth" on steel wheels anyway.

If you go to Tirerack.com, click on "Installation" and enter your zip code. A list of approved installers in your area will come up. Click on the shop's name and scroll down. It should say what kind of mounting equipment they have. Look for the word "Touchless" or something similar.

The reason those gouges are there is because the machine is missing the rubber pads on the feet that hold the wheel in place. VERY VERY few shops ever replace them when they fall off. If you know which machine is going to be used you can look at it before and tell if all the rubber feet are still intact.

There are two main types of setups for holding the tire in place while the tire is changed.

The most common is the one with 3-4 hook like grabbers that slide in and out on top of the surface where the wheel is laid down. They can be used to hold the wheel in two different ways. It can hold the wheel by sliding in from the outside and grabbing the outside edge of the rear rim. This will not leave any damage. The other way is that it can slide out from the inside. As long as you have enough tire bulge that the sloped part is sliding on the tire and not the rim then it won't cause damage to the rear of the rim. If you have stretched tires on a wheel (it doesn't have to be extreme) then it will scratch the rear of the rim as the hooks slide outward to grab the wheel. Also if it does not have the rubber feet on the part that grabs the inside of the rim then it will gouge the inside as well.

Take note that neither have the rubber protectors. And in the second picture you can see the dimples that caused the damage to your wheels.

The second one has a raised spring loaded perch that the wheel sits on, and 3 to 4 arms that will swing outward till they grab the inside of the rim and hold the wheel. Again without the rubber protectors they will gouge the inside of the wheel (this is where the 8 dimples came from). If they have the rubber pads though, and the installed does a good job and doesn't screw the front of the wheel up, then you can change the tires without any damage at all.

Again no rubber protectors on the arms.

About ten years ago, I bought a set of American Racing Torq Thrust II's from Sears for my 65 Mustang fastback. One of them came back from the tire machine with some really sharp nasty gouges in it. I actually discovered it when I sliced my hand on it loading them into my truck. Sears agreed to replace the wheel at no cost and I ended up with the coolest hose rack in town.

Both of the machines shown in Blaze's post existed at the Firestone stores I was speaking of; the bottom of the two is the one I would use when I had to mount tires (I was supposed to work up front but sometimes the guys in the shop would get behind and I'd have to help by mounting tires and related work) and it would do a pretty good job of not messing up wheels.

I remember when one of the guys got confused by a set of aftermarket wheels, it was like his mind couldn't comprehend these things and the carry in tires that came with the wheels. In about 30 minutes he had ruined three wheels and a tire by using this ancient machine that was usually only put in action on trailer or heavy truck wheels. Sad thing was, firing him would just make the shop find another slob to work in the tire bay, so he stayed after being docked a day's pay.

Blaze: Nice discussion. The middle picture is very similar to the plate on the machine they had. They had no rubber feet anywhere in the shop.

Woody: I tried looking under Tirerack for a touchless system but I found none. I have the same problem, the Rays I have can not be purchased anymore. I was planning to use them on the track, which really puts a hurt on wheels. So, I can live with them no longer being sweet. I just wish it was me putting on the damage not a $90 job technician. At least this gives me an excuse to purchase some of those Time Attacks.

I am still searching for a good place to change tires in the Washington DC area. Anyone familiar with a good shop?

yeah, with most of the local places wanting 20-30 bucks PER TIRE I am starting to think it would be nice to find a machine and just do it myself.

If i thought it was possible to install 275/40/17's (V710) without a machine, I would be doing it myself already.

scrowner wrote: So I got a set of nice Rays Wheels when I purchased my used Miata. Not knowing better I went to NTB to put on a new set of Falken RT-615. I brought just the wheels and tires to NTB. Their machine completely screwed up the inside of one of the wheels by gouging big deep lines into the wheel. The other three wheels have the 8 single point dots of pushed up metal. Previous to this install my wheels had tires on them with no visible marks - so I know it can be done without damage. NTB agreed they screwed up and agreed to have the wheels fixed. I talked at length to the NTB manager/owner and he indicated that at a minimum they would always place the 8 nicks in the wheels with a tire change. So, what should I ask the tire place to be sure they can install tires without damage to the wheels? Is there a decent tire machine I should be looking for? Anyone know of a good tire place that knows how to handle wheels?

i guess when you go get you new tires mounted, stay away from the bloodshot eyed teen...

scrowner wrote: Blaze: Nice discussion. The middle picture is very similar to the plate on the machine they had. They had no rubber feet anywhere in the shop. Woody: I tried looking under Tirerack for a touchless system but I found none. I have the same problem, the Rays I have can not be purchased anymore. I was planning to use them on the track, which really puts a hurt on wheels. So, I can live with them no longer being sweet. I just wish it was me putting on the damage not a $90 job technician. At least this gives me an excuse to purchase some of those Time Attacks. I am still searching for a good place to change tires in the Washington DC area. Anyone familiar with a good shop?

Tire town, I think they are on New Hampshire ave. but it's been a long time.

Wow. After changing more motorcycle tires than I can count in three years at a bike shop - with a lever-action machine, mind you, no fancy hydraulics for this shop - I cannot fathom putting a tire on a machine without a rubber pad in contact with the rim.

This discussion makes me glad that my brother-in-law runs an NTB, and he's cool enough not to hand off my stuff to the closest stoned tire jockey. In fact, I had him mount Hoosiers onto my dad's magnesium Campagnolos off his Fulvia, because he and at least one of his guys is trustworthy. I guess I need to buy him a beer next time I see him...

i worked at a NTB for a brief time (and i say BRIEF). I remember we had a Jag X-Type R come in for 4 new. They have a staggered setup. Nobody new that, so the put 4 rears all way round and sent the poor lady (i wasnt working that day). Needless to say, she came back the next day complaining saying her husband said we screwed up. I was laughing so hard at the manager...

I got my race tires mounted at Wally World...I could care less about gouges in the rims, and they are insured against ripping my sidewalls...plus they were 42 dollars out the door for 4 rims mounted and balanced...way better than Discount Tire's $23 PER TIRE!

I don't care if a stoned teenager is mounting my tires if it saves me 49 dollars.

you just have to get used to hearing "these tires have less than 5/32" tread, I cannot mount them", and just tell them "they are not DOT legal, and will not be driven on the street."

Yeah, maybe motorcycle shops are worth a shot. I had tires mounted by Discount onto my race wheels (thin spun metal.) They put dents in all of the rims which was bad enough, but when I discovered it they claimed it couldn't have been them. That, as I watched a tire monkey using that lever thingy they use and levering someone elses tire over the edge of the wheel, kind of like a crowbar... nope, couldn't be them. I had to make some noise but they fixed the wheels, then had them mounted again - the right way - by a local motorcycle shop.

scrowner wrote: I am still searching for a good place to change tires in the Washington DC area. Anyone familiar with a good shop?

Radial Tire in silver spring. Their website has nothing on it but call them and they are good.

http://www.radialtire.com/

maroon92 wrote: I got my race tires mounted at Wally World...I could care less about gouges in the rims, and they are insured against ripping my sidewalls...plus they were 42 dollars out the door for 4 rims mounted and balanced...way better than Discount Tire's $23 PER TIRE! I don't care if a stoned teenager is mounting my tires if it saves me 49 dollars. you just have to get used to hearing "these tires have less than 5/32" tread, I cannot mount them", and just tell them "they are not DOT legal, and will not be driven on the street."

Some of us have nice wheels.

you can also save money buying your race tires used from www.johnbtires.com

Looks like someone just got a canoe...

You have nice wheels, good tires & you want them to stay that way you go to a specialty shop who buys the high dollar equipment & who pays & trains their techs & you get a good job. If your only criterion is how cheap is it don't be surprised when you get a E36 M3ty cheap job & damaged equipment.

All it takes is two polished tire spoons, some bead lube, and the skill to use them correctly ....