Trying to decide on a transmission for my TVR project, and I'm leaning toward spending a bit extra and getting a Tremec TKO-500. I've never driven a car with one and don't have a good feel how it shifts.
Anyone driven one? Is it worthy of a sports car? Is it a durable unit over time? Any other issues with going this way?
I like the one in the truck. TKO600. My friend has the same trans in his 69 mustang. I'm just getting close to 1000 miles and its shifting better and better. with my friends short shifter it shifts great. Not as good with my 2' tall shifter in the truck but still precise.
I've driven a Panoz with a TKO behind a stroked small block Ford. It worked so well that I never thought about the transmission once I rolled out onto the track.
I'm wanting to hear from TKO owners, too. I have a future project that might use one.
Sounds pretty positive in multiple different vehicle types.
I'm also considering - purely for upfront costs - a junkyard MT-82 from a new EcoBoost Mustang. Notorious as a weak slush-box, though I think some of that may be overblown.
The TKO would probably cost me an extra $2k upfront. Would be about 40 lb lighter, and a bit more compact. Probably will just hold my nose on the price and move forward.
In reply to USERNAMETAKEN :
that's what I ended up doing. Sure, it was $2300 but that was new, I used my old bellhousing and shortened the driveshaft. Done. Much easier than rolling the dice on a used T-5 or dealing with swapping to a hyd clutch and using a NV3500 or something like that.
In reply to Bob the REAL oil guy. :
Yeah, it turns out there just aren't a ton of options for a high torque 5 speed. I'm pretty sure the EcoBoost would pop a T-5 without too much effort. Same for the exceedingly tempting NC Miata option. Neither of those will go over 300 ft-lb.
Prices are a little higher on the TKO now, and I'll have to add a Quick-time bell-housing for another grand. I just have to remind myself that I'm still not up to the price of a TR-6 engine rebuild...
I went with the 600 "just in case" I decided to get silly with an engine down the road.
In reply to Bob the REAL oil guy. :
I was aiming towards the 500, with the 10-spline. That would let me use a stock Focus ST clutch/flywheel/starter.
This may be me being pound-foolish again, but I was hoping to economize at least in a few spots. This is assuming a stock ST clutch can hold 360 lb-ft from the swap motor. Some quick searches indicate it might be ok.
A fellow autocrosser grenaded my TKO years ago. It had a nice shift feel with short throws but the 1-2 pull was a little notchy and had a false stop about 2/3 of the way back. The poor fellow didn’t know the car well and released the clutch before 2nd was fully engaged. I’ve often wondered if a different fill would have helped and I don’t think my experience was representative.
I experienced only two of them, a unit modified/hacked by Keisler which had the shift feel of a 1970s truck (not sure if this was because of the trans, or some company cutting half the case out and epoxying sheetmetal over the hole) and another one in a 565ci Camaro. The Camaro felt decent although the trans seemed to wear alarmingly quickly. After only a few hundred miles the gear oil was a glitterfest of brass and steel. On the other hand, the engine's torque output was just a bit outside what the trans was rated for...
What's that about anecdotes and data?
USERNAMETAKEN said: Yeah, it turns out there just aren't a ton of options for a high torque 5 speed. I'm pretty sure the EcoBoost would pop a T-5 without too much effort. Same for the exceedingly tempting NC Miata option. Neither of those will go over 300 ft-lb.
On the other hand your car is pretty light, so that should offset some of the stress on the transmission. I'd think there must be some company out there that has upgrades for a T5 - what's the torque rating of the Ecoboost engine?
G force does upgraded t5 stuff. Tko ive owned as well. Agter break in, with redline fluid and a good shifter matches perfectly with my high strung small block in the pro touring duster.
In reply to stuart in mn :
With the control pack tune, the engine will make 360 ft-lb at about 2500 rpm. That's the peak and it drops steadily from there.
Any chance you could drive an Ecoboost manual Mustang and see how you like the transmission? It seems like the easy button. Then again, if the TKO is 40lb lighter that's a nice weight savings. But is it lighter even with the Quicktime bell housing? Plenty of people would gladly spend $2k to shave 40lbs!!
In reply to USERNAMETAKEN :
My buddies 69 Cleveland is making about 500-550tq and about 475-500hp. It's pretty wicked. the cam and massive heads make it rev to 6800. It doesn't idle as much as it shudders and shakes.
In reply to dculberson :
That's on my list for the weekend. I drove a 2011-ish V6 Mustang with the same transmission a few years ago, and I thought it was fine. It certainly didn't stand out as horrible. The trick with the MT-82 is whether or not I can locate the shifter in the right spot. It has a remote shifter, which is maybe an advantage, but I'm just not clear on how the shifter operates and how I might re-design it for a different location.
The 40 lb lighter is including 20 lb for the Quicktime bellhousing.
Decent, modern, more than 4 speed manual transmissions with existing engineered drop in solutions that hold more torque than a lawnmower engine seem to fall into that "buy once cry once" category.
Sure, there are guys who run S10 T5s and R154 boxes with moderate success, or ones out of a 300ZX, but ultimately its easier, more reliable, and cheaper in the long run if you value your time at all to just get the Tremec, G Force, Rockland Standard Gear, etc trans that works for you.
USERNAMETAKEN said:
The 40 lb lighter is including 20 lb for the Quicktime bellhousing.
I dropped 97lbs going from the old SM465 to the TKO-600.
In reply to Bob the REAL oil guy. :
It would be hard to find anything heavier than the SM465 without going to a Roadranger or Rockwell
dculberson said:Any chance you could drive an Ecoboost manual Mustang and see how you like the transmission? It seems like the easy button. Then again, if the TKO is 40lb lighter that's a nice weight savings. But is it lighter even with the Quicktime bell housing? Plenty of people would gladly spend $2k to shave 40lbs!!
I'm currently shopping for a EB Mustang transmission. I've convinced myself that I can adapt the remote shifter to my needs. And it'll shift fine.
Looking like I'll be able to get one for $1000-1400. That'll be a solid $2500 less than the TKO. I just had to spent a ton of money on some other stuff (like a new car...) and need to economize a bit.
And getting the trans on site will mean I can start on motor and trans mounts and do a bunch of work that requires just materials I already have and fabricating time, rather than just spending more big chunks of cash. That'll give me time to get the war-chest built up again.
USERNAMETAKEN said:In reply to stuart in mn :
With the control pack tune, the engine will make 360 ft-lb at about 2500 rpm. That's the peak and it drops steadily from there.
I am not trying to talk you into a T5. That being said, rebuilt units are under $1k and lighter than the TKO by double-digits. Many many Mustang guys and motor swappers have been running T5s behind 347 strokers that do 400/400 or better.
JBasham said:I am not trying to talk you into a T5. That being said, rebuilt units are under $1k and lighter than the TKO by double-digits. Many many Mustang guys and motor swappers have been running T5s behind 347 strokers that do 400/400 or better.
I hear ya. I'd love to be able to go with a T5. It's 25 lb lighter than the TKO. Cheaper for certain. But I'm not convinced they're up to the job. And I still would have to get the $1000 Quicktime bell-housing.
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