In reply to Strike_Zero :
I have a couple laptops. The newest being a HP Envy 360 with an i7. I unfortunately did not get the graphics card, not thinking about the graphics being embedded in the motherboard. I believe I have a thunderbolt port and thought about running an external graphics card. 250 for the setup + the graphics card. Im just not to sure the benchmark of the cpu is worth investing that much and I have some other things I would like to build a pc for anyhow.
Snowdoggie said:$150 to $200 is quite a bit of money for what is essentially a used game controller device. I remember back in the day you could get a cheap joystick for ten bucks at the computer store.
I guess this is a more expensive hobby than I thought.
Yeah, that's why you buy a new G920 for $250 like prodarwin posted. Only downside is no shifter which is i think an extra $60? but not strictly necessary. Having used both the G27 and the G920, I would absolutely buy a $250 new 920 before a $200 used G27. It is actually noticeably better than the 27, plus being new and under warranty is nice. Especially since the older wheels have some known issues that the new design more or less fixed.
Now, when (if?) the market calms down post-pandemic and a used G27 is the $50 that it should be again, then it's a much better choice.
Also, there's nothing stopping you from playing on a keyboard and mouse, or xbox controller, or that $10 used joystick...but that's not the point of sim racing.
dps214 said:Snowdoggie said:$150 to $200 is quite a bit of money for what is essentially a used game controller device. I remember back in the day you could get a cheap joystick for ten bucks at the computer store.
I guess this is a more expensive hobby than I thought.
Yeah, that's why you buy a new G920 for $250 like prodarwin posted. Only downside is no shifter which is i think an extra $60? but not strictly necessary. Having used both the G27 and the G920, I would absolutely buy a $250 new 920 before a $200 used G27. It is actually noticeably better than the 27, plus being new and under warranty is nice. Especially since the older wheels have some known issues that the new design more or less fixed.
Now, when (if?) the market calms down post-pandemic and a used G27 is the $50 that it should be again, then it's a much better choice.
Also, there's nothing stopping you from playing on a keyboard and mouse, or xbox controller, or that $10 used joystick...but that's not the point of sim racing.
I have actually spent $250 on real project cars and running motorcycles. I have spent $200 taking Mrs. Snowdoggie out on the town. Every time one of my dogs goes to the Vet it's $200. Still, I have a hard time believing a plastic steering wheel is worth more than $50. I don't know why.
There are lots of Facebook buy/sell sim groups. You can buy use and then flip it if it isn't for you.
You can also play some of the same sims on a used $150 X-box one and see if it is for you before you upgrade to a PC. You can use the same G920 on a X-box or a PC.
Then there is this - https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2016-cxc-simulator-motion-pro-ii-simulator/
Snowdoggie said:I have actually spent $250 on real project cars and running motorcycles. I have spent $200 taking Mrs. Snowdoggie out on the town. Every time one of my dogs goes to the Vet it's $200. Still, I have a hard time believing a plastic steering wheel is worth more than $50. I don't know why.
Everyone has their own perception of value. To me, you are talking about the price a single competition tire, maybe 2 in a narrow 15" size. It lasts orders of magnitude longer, and you can resell it for a fair amount unlike your tires.
+1 to the XBOX/PS idea also. A great way to sample it. Grab PCars or GT Sport and a wheel, play that for a while, then resell and take tha $50 or 100 hit.
Rusnak_322 said:There are lots of Facebook buy/sell sim groups. You can buy use and then flip it if it isn't for you.
You can also play some of the same sims on a used $150 X-box one and see if it is for you before you upgrade to a PC. You can use the same G920 on a X-box or a PC.
Then there is this - https://bringatrailer.com/listing/2016-cxc-simulator-motion-pro-ii-simulator/
Considering my previous experience on Facebook Marketplace with a motorcycle, I will get lots of kids who want to take it home and try it out first, then offer $35 for something I paid $150 for.
In reply to Snowdoggie :
I wouldn't stick stuff like that on FB marketplace, put them on eBay or the specialised buy/sell groups Rusnak mentioned.
Plus you can always tell people to sod off 
.
In reply to taparsons :
An i7 is honestly overkill. I only got it because it was cheap at the time and I hold on to equipment for decades LOL! You can run majority of the sims out there on a 3rd gen i5 quad core with 8GB of RAM and a mid-tier GPU. NewEgg has a E36 M3 ton of refurbed minitowers starting @ $150 (free shipping!).
Head over to https://www.game-debate.com/. You can play around to get an idea of what how the game may play and possible bottlenecks in the configuration.
I went with Playstation 4 and the G29 wheel/pedal combo. Changed the springs in the pedals with a kit and used the settings chart on a few of the forums which made the dead spot in the wheel go away. Project Cars, Assetto Corsa and Gran Turismo Sport are my go-to fun games but i wish i could load tracks local to me. None of them have VIR, Summit Point or Dominion let alone NJMP or Pocono RC.
Id love to try iracing but the thought of a subscription based service just irks me to no end. I have heard that you can download all the tracks that people make on iracing so its a better way to get practice time on tracks you know.
Whats the thought? Worth it to go PC + iracing for the local tracks or stick with PS4 and just keep practicing on tracks i will probably never drive in my life?
In reply to kevinatfms :
If you want to run more of the local tracks then a PC with Assetto Corsa (and rFactor 2) will be the most affordable way with the most free content. iRacing has VIR and Summit Point but they are older tracks to the service (I think VIR is one of the originals) so they are pretty out of date and Summit is missing the Shenandoah circuit. iRacing is great for the racing and being on track with other real people, that of course can be a good and bad thing depending on who is there just like any real track day.
For anyone that can make the hardware jump to VR the extra realism is pretty impressive. If the goal is to learn tracks it really brings tracks to life with everything being scaled properly and actually 3D. The elevation changes as an example are lost on a flat monitor (doesn't how many you have) but come alive in a VR headset, the first time driving the Nordschleife in VR was pretty special (and still is) after running it on monitors and TV's over the year. Some people wont have the stomach for it but if you can push past that the payoff is worth it. For me it also helps me sense when the car is yawing before I pick it up through the wheel. iRacing wasn't bad to get used to and there are a lot of background settings to help dial it in and keep things settled, games like Dirt Rally 2 not so much (but is awesome if/once you can handle it).
Can't recommend it enough. Both me and my buddy raced through our 20s. Started in autocross and progressed to some more serious stuff. He flew between Canada and US, did some skip barber competitions, raced with some teams. He now has a setup which is roughly 15k in maple syrup dollars. 80/20 rig, triple monitors, 2k pedals with hydraulics...etc. I would say we both absolutely swear by it having dumped cubic dollars into the real thing as well. Racing in most forms is expensive. Hell trackdays are expensive, $500 a day or more in total costs adds up. As our priorities shifted but we still wanted to scratch the competitive racing itch; we found simracing.
When you have a serious setup and it's dialed in: you get 90% of the immersion and the racing is so close (I racing) and fun. You have a bad race? Get up and walk away form computer. You have a bad race in real life? Well you might have had 5 minutes in the car and your weekend is over and now there is just a flight home. Or maybe 5k and a week of garage time in repairs. When the racing is close and you are battling it out virtually I can tell you it gets the heart going just the same. You miss the smells, the more real noises and forces but given infinite seat time that is *almost* as good...the value is just off the charts.
My setup is a lot more basic, basic fanatec stuff, some 8 year old csl load cell pedals, pvc pipe rig I built for $200, and an oculus rift for that sweet sweet VR immersion. Now I know it translates, but I didn't quite believe how much until my own personal experience. I started the real thing first, so I had an easy time going to the sim stuff. Then a couple of years ago I wanted to expand my horizons: drifting. So I probably casually drifted virtually for about 2 years. I had to unlearn a lot from racing, it's not easy to do it well, I have a greater appreciation for the drivers now and it's not the same as the quick twitches to correct oversteer like in racing at the limit. It's also bucket loads of fun.
Then I decided to go look at a local kids drift car to purchase. A missile; aka a beat to hell sh*tbox or a seat time car. Stock power e36 325 with a welded 3.91, clapped out eBay coil overs and a poorly mounted hydro. Well I had to test drive it. I have never drifted in real life before that test drive. I just went for it and from the first clutch kick it was just like playing the video games. I couldn't believe it, I didn't spin out, and I already had the built in muscle memory to know what to do. Held my slide, went for a couple transitions, slid around an entire abandoned building...etc. It works. You can learn race craft, you can learn tracks and you can build the muscle memory and coordination. Highly recommended 10/10 especially if you like getting value for your dollar.
I'll throw my 2 cents in since I just took the plunge a few weeks ago. I wanted to do it on a budget so here's my rough price list:
- Ryzen 3 budget build (built for my kids about a year and a half ago, about $250 pieced together from sales and CL parts. Now I've stolen it back)
- Playseat Evo ($250 CL)
- G920 ($240 Amazon)
- Geforce 1070 something or other (used, ebay, $200ish)
- 165Hz Monitor (important, 1080p only Monoprice, $160)
Plus tax and iRacing itself, figure I'm in about $1300 for a year of racing.
My impression is that when it's good, iRacing is really good -- it didn't take long to lose myself in the feeling of connecting corners just right, lift-throttle oversteer adjustments, judging the slip angle on track out. I really did not expect it to tickle the exact same parts of my brain like it does. It's a cool feeling when you find yourself looking "up and out" but really you're just looking up at the corner of a monitor.
When it's bad it's rage-quit bad. After a few frustrating practice sessions I switched my brake activity to the Logitech clutch pedal, because the feeling in the brake pedal was just awful. The clutch pedal feeling is non-existent but at least I can gauge how far I'm pushing the pedal down. I've ordered a pedal upgrade but with sim-racing parts in such high demand I don't know when it will get here. Braking is the most frustrating part of the whole thing, because it's so hard to gauge corner entry speed and also it's so crucial to getting a good laptime. So I push and push and it means I biff braking zones about 20% of the time. And in a race that's basically not acceptable. I'm still working on it.
Overall I think it's "worth it" for something I can do a couple times a month with friends that scratches the racing itch in a surprisingly effective way, but I don't see myself becoming one of these sim racing guys because I just can't put in the time to get good enough to work up the iRacing ladder.
FYI with the 920, if you pull the rubber bushing out of the brake pedal it improves things a lot. As you said, the feel still sucks, but at least you can then gauge travel.
In reply to ProDarwin :
With the bushing out is it the same as the clutch pedal?
Yeah, they feel almost exactly the same on mine.
ProDarwin said:Snowdoggie said:I have actually spent $250 on real project cars and running motorcycles. I have spent $200 taking Mrs. Snowdoggie out on the town. Every time one of my dogs goes to the Vet it's $200. Still, I have a hard time believing a plastic steering wheel is worth more than $50. I don't know why.
Everyone has their own perception of value. To me, you are talking about the price a single competition tire, maybe 2 in a narrow 15" size. It lasts orders of magnitude longer, and you can resell it for a fair amount unlike your tires.
+1 to the XBOX/PS idea also. A great way to sample it. Grab PCars or GT Sport and a wheel, play that for a while, then resell and take tha $50 or 100 hit.
100% on the money. My $200 fanatec shifter is a solid aluminum piece, that can switch between 7 speed and sequential, came with 2 shift knobs, has excellent shift feel and adjustable resistance. Really a well engineered and quality piece. Then I look at the shift knob aftermarket and you are paying $80 for a little rubber knob. With sim gear you get what you pay for but you hit value spots at pretty reasonable prices in my experience.
Snowdoggie said:dps214 said:Snowdoggie said:$150 to $200 is quite a bit of money for what is essentially a used game controller device. I remember back in the day you could get a cheap joystick for ten bucks at the computer store.
I guess this is a more expensive hobby than I thought.
Yeah, that's why you buy a new G920 for $250 like prodarwin posted. Only downside is no shifter which is i think an extra $60? but not strictly necessary. Having used both the G27 and the G920, I would absolutely buy a $250 new 920 before a $200 used G27. It is actually noticeably better than the 27, plus being new and under warranty is nice. Especially since the older wheels have some known issues that the new design more or less fixed.
Now, when (if?) the market calms down post-pandemic and a used G27 is the $50 that it should be again, then it's a much better choice.
Also, there's nothing stopping you from playing on a keyboard and mouse, or xbox controller, or that $10 used joystick...but that's not the point of sim racing.
I have actually spent $250 on real project cars and running motorcycles. I have spent $200 taking Mrs. Snowdoggie out on the town. Every time one of my dogs goes to the Vet it's $200. Still, I have a hard time believing a plastic steering wheel is worth more than $50. I don't know why.
Then maybe it's not the hobby for you. You seem stuck on finding ways to not try/enjoy it vs giving it a shot.
$250 is absolutely cheap for wheel/pedals. And there is a large mod community around the Logitech stuff to increase their feel/fidelity.
I haven't built another setup yet because I know exactly what I want having had Fanatec stuff before. The entry level pedal/wheels there is going to run ~$750...........and that's still middle of the road stuff and not the super high-end direct-drive wheels, or hydraulic pedals, etc.
rwdsport said:Can't recommend it enough. Both me and my buddy raced through our 20s. Started in autocross and progressed to some more serious stuff. He flew between Canada and US, did some skip barber competitions, raced with some teams. He now has a setup which is roughly 15k in maple syrup dollars. 80/20 rig, triple monitors, 2k pedals with hydraulics...etc. I would say we both absolutely swear by it having dumped cubic dollars into the real thing as well. Racing in most forms is expensive. Hell trackdays are expensive, $500 a day or more in total costs adds up. As our priorities shifted but we still wanted to scratch the competitive racing itch; we found simracing.
When you have a serious setup and it's dialed in: you get 90% of the immersion and the racing is so close (I racing) and fun. You have a bad race? Get up and walk away form computer. You have a bad race in real life? Well you might have had 5 minutes in the car and your weekend is over and now there is just a flight home. Or maybe 5k and a week of garage time in repairs. When the racing is close and you are battling it out virtually I can tell you it gets the heart going just the same. You miss the smells, the more real noises and forces but given infinite seat time that is *almost* as good...the value is just off the charts.
THIS, all of THIS.
the intensity I feel in iRacing is part of the drug....
I really hate that I found this thread because it's probably going to cost me thousands of dollars...
adam525i (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to kevinatfms :
If you want to run more of the local tracks then a PC with Assetto Corsa (and rFactor 2) will be the most affordable way with the most free content. iRacing has VIR and Summit Point but they are older tracks to the service (I think VIR is one of the originals) so they are pretty out of date and Summit is missing the Shenandoah circuit. iRacing is great for the racing and being on track with other real people, that of course can be a good and bad thing depending on who is there just like any real track day.
For anyone that can make the hardware jump to VR the extra realism is pretty impressive. If the goal is to learn tracks it really brings tracks to life with everything being scaled properly and actually 3D. The elevation changes as an example are lost on a flat monitor (doesn't how many you have) but come alive in a VR headset, the first time driving the Nordschleife in VR was pretty special (and still is) after running it on monitors and TV's over the year. Some people wont have the stomach for it but if you can push past that the payoff is worth it. For me it also helps me sense when the car is yawing before I pick it up through the wheel. iRacing wasn't bad to get used to and there are a lot of background settings to help dial it in and keep things settled, games like Dirt Rally 2 not so much (but is awesome if/once you can handle it).
Dirt 2.0 makes me barf in about 5 minutes. Pass!
I run iRacing/AC/Rfactor2 on a $750 iBuypower PC from Best buy (Intel I5, 8GB RAM, GTX 1660 OC). I use a Logitech Driving Force GT.
The PC has no issues running any of the software. I have no complaints about the DFGT but then again I tend to just adapt to equipment rather then chase optimization. It took a small amount of fidling to get the brakes setup with the Logitech Gaming Software to make them have good response in iRacing. I do struggle with braking in things like the F3 car in iRacing but again I adjust to it. It costs me a few tenths in perfect lap time but I'm not falling into that equipment rabbit hole since it's for fun anyway.
One thing to be aware of the is the cost for the software. iRacing has real paywalls that will stop you at certain liscence levels. I like the Radical series but it only runs on included tracks about 2× per series. It would cost several hundred to get all the content to keep running every week. That said the MX-5 cup is fun and if you are fast enough to get into the first few groups the racing is great even for a Rookie series. I've managed to be on pole in the 2nd run group with my equipment.
It's fun and well worth the $1300 or so I have into it (PC, Wheel, Software). For me it is the only PC I have and it was time to upgrade our PC anyway. I use it for video editing and CAD work so the "Gaming" aspect of the purchase really only involved paying attention to the Video Card of what I bought.
The only other note is everything is online and updates are frequent. When I started I had ~2MBs DSL internet and getting the software to work was literally a week of downloading. Updates of ~1Gig are frequent. I now have 900MBs internet so I don't care but it is something to be aware of. If your planning any scheduled racing make sure you load the software in the morning to get any updates if your on slow internet.
Black Friday sales are starting and a new generation of CPU/GPU's have been released (supposedly, not sure how available they are), it might not be the worst time to pick up a deal either new or used as people upgrade.
adam525i (Forum Supporter) said:Black Friday sales are starting and a new generation of CPU/GPU's have been released (supposedly, not sure how available they are), it might not be the worst time to pick up a deal either new or used as people upgrade.
From what I've seen, people are still asking stupid money for used 2080 series cards, because the 3xxx cards have been so hard to get.
z31maniac said:adam525i (Forum Supporter) said:Black Friday sales are starting and a new generation of CPU/GPU's have been released (supposedly, not sure how available they are), it might not be the worst time to pick up a deal either new or used as people upgrade.
From what I've seen, people are still asking stupid money for used 2080 series cards, because the 3xxx cards have been so hard to get.
everything that's releasing is asking over retail prices online for scalping.
everything current gen is still asking near retail for the most part.
lower end stuff is reasonably ish priced.. but still expensive because the market is dumb right now.
I thought that I could go out and buy a cheap Chinese made wheel and try it out first, then if I really liked it I would make the $300 investment in a good one. The thing is, unlike in just about everything else including ham radio, I can't find a cheap Chinese knock off. Where is the lower end stuff?
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