Out of all of the systems in a car, the brakes have to be the most important. A car that can’t come to a safe, sure stop has no business being on the road or track.
While today’s cars come from the factory with solid, capable binders, that’s not to say that everything parked in our stables is so well …
No. 3 and 8 photos. Alfa Romeo spider front brakes...lol
It has always amazed me when I take an older car and put a new set of good quality rotors and carbon ceramic street pads.
My 2007 Saab had decent stock drakes but after swapping in zimmerman rotors and the above pads I can easily stop the car with light pressure from my big toe.
The technology improvements in stock replacement brake pads in just the last 10 years is amazing.
What are peoples opinion of ceramic brake pads? I just purchased a set for my old MGA. It's not on the road yet so I haven't actually tried them but it seemed like a good idea at the time.
I have found that new rotors are very important. I bed them in by getting them very hot by making a series or aggressive stops followed by dragging them while driving getting them even hotter. Then drive the car like normal letting the cool. Once down to a normal temp I park the car and let them cool completely. Every vehicle I do this way has spectacular brakes the next time I drive it and they get better after a couple more drives.
Hammertime!
Flynlow said:Hammertime!
Disappointed this was not the first post.
dean1484 said:I have found that new rotors are very important. I bed them in by getting them very hot by making a series or aggressive stops followed by dragging them while driving getting them even hotter. Then drive the car like normal letting the cool. Once down to a normal temp I park the car and let them cool completely. Every vehicle I do this way has spectacular brakes the next time I drive it and they get better after a couple more drives.
How long is the dragging while driving portion of this exercise &then driving like normal part....overall time spent???
MondoMike said:What are peoples opinion of ceramic brake pads?
They are fine as long as you treat them like Mogwai. Don't let them get wet,
Most of my scary "brakes are not working!!!" moments are related to ceramic pads and wet-weather condtitons.
Personally, every set of ceramic pads I've worked with have been garbage. Yeah, they don't dust much (and the dust is hard to see anyway), but they don't like heat (I've seen a few sets crack and others glaze very easily). And none of them have stopped all that well in general. I'll gladly take more aggressive pads that are harder on rotors and make more dust because they actually work.
Ceramic pads are great - they produce very little dust and assuming that you select a suitable compound they have excellent fade characteristics. I've had excellent service with the EBC Redstuff material, but if you want great street performance from pads that aren't ceramic, the Porterfield R4-S are very good as well. Neither are race pads; both have significantly better initial grab and heat performance than lesser pads for the street.
On most cars, big brake kits are really big ego kits. It is comical to see the people that want them for the street trying to rationalize how they ar 'necessary' when drivers running the same cars in SCCA with stock brakes at far higher speeds and producing far more heat than any conceivable street use could possibly produce have no issues at all with them.
Mike, the MGA has limited pad selection as that Lockheed caliper wasn't widely used, so you have to look a bit to find decent pads. Hopefully the ceramic pads you found are good ones.
In reply to rslifkin :
Brake dust is a sign that you are not a wuss. Wear it PROUD.
In reply to wspohn :
On a car that sees street use but also some use that's harder on the brakes heat wise (like an occasional HPDE), a BBK can be helpful by allowing you to get away with less aggressive pads that are more streetable instead of having to use super high temp pads that don't work on the street and needing to swap pads (and possibly rotors).
In reply to 759NRNG :
never actually timed it but there is a 1/3 mile strait that I drag them pretty hard at 35-40 mph and I make three runs. After the first you can smell brakes a bit by the third you can really smell them. For cool down I drive at normal speeds 30-45 mph with minimal brake use (country back roads stuff). for 10-15?min or so. Brakes are still warm when parked but you don’t smell them
Any places to find good tutorials on bedding brakes?
So what's the difference between glazed rotors and bedded rotors?
tyronejk said:So what's the difference between glazed rotors and bedded rotors?
I'm pretty sure it's the difference between hot enough to cut into the surface a little and get some pad transfer (bedded) vs getting them too hot (glazed).
MondoMike said:What are peoples opinion of ceramic brake pads? I just purchased a set for my old MGA. It's not on the road yet so I haven't actually tried them but it seemed like a good idea at the time.
The biggest problem i had with customer cars when installing ceramic pads was comebacks for noise. They liked to squeal. This was 8-10 years ago so they may be better now.
rslifkin said:tyronejk said:So what's the difference between glazed rotors and bedded rotors?
I'm pretty sure it's the difference between hot enough to cut into the surface a little and get some pad transfer (bedded) vs getting them too hot (glazed).
So how can you tell the difference?
Any doofus can slap a set of pads on, If you want to step your brake service game up, focus on fitment. Replacement pads are almost always tight out of the box. Clean up the corrosion and crud buildup where the pad contacts the caliper or bracket. If it has shims take those off and clean behind them. Check the pad fitment. It should be easy to move the pad back and forth with your fingers with little to no resistance. If they are still tight break out your file. The backing plate on the pad typically has a burr around the edge from the manufacturing process, plus a thick coat of paint causing it to be bigger than intended. Start filing until you get the proper fit. Then put a thin layer of lube where the pad contacts the bracket. I use antiseize.
Next make sure your sliders still slide. Take the pins out and clean them up good. Now this next part is important, those round slide pins many times ride in rubber orings. If you use a petroleum lubricant on a rubber oring it swells. Then your pins dont slide any more. So you know that little pack of synthetic brake lube the parts guy tried to sell you? It turns out hes not an idiot, or a corporate toadie. That synthetic stuff serves a real purpose. Use it on your pins.
If the last guy didnt follow these steps, and you do, you will feel an improvement in braking performance. I hope this helps somebody.
"Out of all of the systems in a car, the brakes have to be the most important."
I dunno, man. The day my steering wheel almost fell off (that loose bolt at the base inside of 80s GM steering columns) I began to think I would have preferred to lose brakes than steering.
Question: I overheated my hawk 5.0's at tail of the dragon. As in, they were smoking like crazy when I pulled off with my buddies. Does that ruin the pad material? I installed new rotors, but left the pads because they seemed ok.
In reply to bladebrakers101 :
The pad material can delaminate from the backing plate. Of course, you will know that pretty quick by the horrible grinding sound. LOL
In reply to MondoMike :
I've always read that ceramics main claim was less dust. And less or no squeal. Pads that grip better than stock street compounds will make more dust and some will have some squeal. I think ceramic is a marketing gimmick. But low dust is important to some street drivers. 2-cents.
In reply to Knurled. :
I have tried ceramic pads in various brands from cheap to expensive and a good grade of ceramics makes for good solid braking performance - because the car is occasionally used for towing I also added drilled and slotted rotors at all 4 corners and even in the colorado mountains and idiotic interstate speeds in Nevada I never came close to running out of brakes. Would I use them on the track car? Not even close, for the track car Hawk makes a crossover street/track compound that is brilliant. Good heat tolerance for track days and liveable on the street. Makes lots of brake dust and is harder on rotors than ceramics. But they have great initial bite and require very little pedal pressure. When I drive the car with ceramics, the pedal pressure required is quite a bit higher.
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