DaveEstey wrote: In reply to Vigo: Yes, but not when the truck is tied up with horse duty.
I see we share similar problems. Just yesterday my wife was lamenting missing a show that is the same weekend as the Watkins Glen Chump race we already paid for.
pkingham wrote: I've been towing a typical 24' enclosed trailer for 10 years with a 2005 Ford Expedition 4WD (standard, not EL). It works reasonably well, though it gets about 7 mpg when towing at around 70 mpg. I have towed through some hills, and it works, but it sure feels like it's working hard. It works well enough overall that I just upgraded to a 2014 version of the same thing. Having said that, though, my first Expedition replaced a Powerstroke F250, and that was definitely a much better tow vehicle. I imagine the Excursion would be a great choice. I was tempted to go that way when I got the first Expedition, but the Excursion is so big it would be a pain in the secondary use as a people hauler.
When I moonlighted with a local DJ, we routinely hauled either a 24x8.5 flat nose or a 28x8.5 v-nose with his '04 expedition. While mileage wasn't great, the damn thing pulled them just fine. Considering the amount of weight professional audio & intelligent lighting weighs, every trip out was probably heavily overloaded. Did just fine for over 6 years and 200k miles. Once two big shows each evening started happening, and doing lighting work for large events that were 200+ miles away, there was initially an addition of a 3v v10 excursion, then finally a 7.3L PSD/6sp dually replaced the expedition.
TLDR, I wouldn't hesitate to do what the OP is wanting to do with a '04+ Expedition. 
DaveEstey wrote: Those really work? I've got plenty of fiberglass - I could make my own!
Yes when I was pulling my 26fter with the bubble and my 24ft flat nose with a WAY underpowered 96 f150 302v8 I could feel the difreance but once I put a cap on the truck it was the same no mater which trailer I hauled
In reply to DaveEstey: I've towed my enclosed trailer for decades with a S10 Blazer or it's GM variant.. Little 2.8 V6 or later the 4.3 All over the country.
Later I switched to a short box step side K1500 Chevy which I racked up (so far) 353,000 miles. Never had the least bit of trouble keeping up with traffic or passing if needed.
The idea that the truck has to be massive is proven to be a myth by the trillions of miles over the road truckers haul massive loads (relative to the weight of the truck) Loads which may outweigh the weight of the truck by 3-4 to 1
2500# 24' enclosed trailer? Which company is the manufacturer?
4wd vans that era are always aftermarket conversions. I wonder who did that one? A refitter, or the PO? The miles don't worry me if the engine has been taken care of and isn't heavily modified. The van fitments were a little different on the PSD than the trucks, but I don't know the extent. Seems like different fuel filters and engine-top accessories for space reasons. 4wd vans' popularity seems to be rocketing right now, so you'll either pay too much for it up front or if you get it at sane $ it will hold value well.
I don't see why it wouldn't tow as well as any lifted HD 4wd truck, which is to say just fine.
Just thought I'd add some context to this.
Sunday coming home Raceway Park of the Midlands (formerly Mid-America Motorplex), we were towing a 24' enclosed trailer with a Miata, tools, few extra sets of wheels/tires, gear, etc. It was an extra height trailer though.
We were towing into a strong headwind, and it was gusty. Tow vehicle, '03 F250.
We couldn't do more than 55mph, overdrive couldn't cruise anything above 40, and we were getting 5mpg. On the way there we were towing 85-90, no wind and getting just north of 8mpg.
The old "better to have it and not need it, than need it and not have it."
Had we been in something smaller/less powerful. We would have had to just pull over and wait for hours until it stopped.
The idea that the truck has to be massive is proven to be a myth by the trillions of miles over the road truckers haul massive loads (relative to the weight of the truck) Loads which may outweigh the weight of the truck by 3-4 to 1
Im normally the one saying you can safely tow with anything if you're willing to drive slow enough (i really think that is most people's limiting factor on safety, not their equipment), but the thing about comparing to semis is that we all just already accept that semis are unsafe to begin with. When a semi flips over or takes 500 feet to stop, we all cut them a lot of slack because we've all just gotten used to the fact that they are rolling deathtraps for smaller vehicles. But i'd say standards are different for smaller tow vehicles as far as what sort of intentional safety compromise you can get away with. Plus, most of the towing done to and from racetracks is bumper-tow without 8 tires and half the trailer weight pushing down on the ground to keep the back of the tow vehicle from being unduly 'influenced'.
Vigo wrote:The idea that the truck has to be massive is proven to be a myth by the trillions of miles over the road truckers haul massive loads (relative to the weight of the truck) Loads which may outweigh the weight of the truck by 3-4 to 1Im normally the one saying you can safely tow with anything if you're willing to drive slow enough (i really think that is most people's limiting factor on safety, not their equipment), but the thing about comparing to semis is that we all just already accept that semis are unsafe to begin with. When a semi flips over or takes 500 feet to stop, we all cut them a lot of slack because we've all just gotten used to the fact that they are rolling deathtraps for smaller vehicles. But i'd say standards are different for smaller tow vehicles as far as what sort of intentional safety compromise you can get away with. Plus, most of the towing done to and from racetracks is bumper-tow without 8 tires and half the trailer weight pushing down on the ground to keep the back of the tow vehicle from being unduly 'influenced'.
Agreed. A bumper pull trailer of a given weight needs a heavier tow vehicle to keep things stable than a 5th wheel or gooseneck does. The bumper pull not only puts less of its weight on the tow rig, but it also mounts further back, so it's got more leverage to push the rear end of the tow rig sideways.
My '14 Tundra pulls my 24' flat nose 24' trailer and track car with no trouble. I have sway control and weight distributing hitch which I don't always use. I don't drive over 65 mph and the cruise control works fine on level ground. No major grades here in FL but it goes up overpasses just fine. I average about 10 mpg at that speed. Truck would go faster, but I won't.
In reply to rslifkin: Driver skill does make a difference, more so than any particular combination.. I towed a triple axle 28 foot trailer filled with 2 race cars across country with only a Mercury sedan (460 Cu in engine) as a tow car. In rush hour Atlantic city traffic at nearly 70MPH a collision ahead forced me to take wild avoidance action. I guess the sight of that trailer swinging completely sideways scared other drivers into giving me room but a couple of tank slappers left and right never produced a single contact. A combination of power and braking brought it under control. The owner of that particular combination later lost control taking his lawn mower to the repair shop on an empty rural road and totaled everything..
One advantage to a short truck/longer trailer combination is ease of parking in tight pit, parking lot, driveway, etc. locations. One disadvantage is lack of ability to impress with size..
Sounds like a good dose of luck, as well. I once had an F150 plow into my quarter panel on the highway and then bounce across all 3 lanes and end up on the other shoulder. The fact that he used all 3 lanes without hitting anything ELSE wouldn't be considered skill. You can't count on (or really even control) having the necessary room to turn your rig sideways across the whole road without there being other people in those lanes to hit.
I've never gotten a tow rig sideways. That's probably part skill and part luck. But if I ever do get a rig sideways and still don't hit anything, i'd say that'd be 90+% luck.
In reply to Vigo: The reason there was more than one tank slapper is in order to fit that whole thing sideways across lanes of traffic I had to delay /and extend time out of shape in order to fit the holes in traffic.. But yes it was lucky that in Atlanta rush hour traffic there were holes in traffic to fit into.. and a couple of drivers seeing the combination sideways slowed or changed lanes to give me room to work..
In my youth I raced a sprint car on 1/2 & 3/8ths mile dirt tracks so I'm comfortable with driving sideways while dodging traffic. I'm also from Minnesota where sliding around on ice/snow covered roads is just part of life. Add the estimated 2&1/2 million miles I've driven so far in my life and the equation changes But oh yeh! Lady luck was sure with me at that moment..
Buy old ambulance. Convert to mini camper use lighting for night work and have plenty of toolbox space. Win.
http://boston.craigslist.org/bmw/cto/5555578410.html
There will always be stories of what people have gotten away with in the towing world. BUT if you accept that towing is the most dangerous part of the car world that we live in and that it is rather important that most of us get back home on Sunday nite for work on Monday, and the potential liability of a towing accident(racing lawyer kills family of 5 would be the headline), you realize that excess towing capacity is a good thing. 'Burbs and Excursions were always my choice. The modern 4 door pickups would be another option.
wheels777 wrote: 2500# 24' enclosed trailer? Which company is the manufacturer?
Double checked my data. 2,900lbs. It's a Homesteader Challenger
whenry wrote: There will always be stories of what people have gotten away with in the towing world. BUT if you accept that towing is the most dangerous part of the car world that we live in and that it is rather important that most of us get back home on Sunday nite for work on Monday, and the potential liability of a towing accident(racing lawyer kills family of 5 would be the headline), you realize that excess towing capacity is a good thing. 'Burbs and Excursions were always my choice. The modern 4 door pickups would be another option.
You could be in Semi territory, more than a few race cars arrive at race tracks in Semi's. Big over the road tractors can be had for modest prices fresh out of leases. The better ones tend to be low maintenance up to 5-600,000 miles. Considering the gentle nature of use by most over the road truckers and ease of a complete inspection it's something to consider.. Besides modern semi's Like Volvo have features like computer controlled transmissions (Think automatic) that help you get over 10MPG
Yes you may need a commercial license with air brake endorsement but that is not hard.. Most major cities have a truck you can rent for just the test. It's not a full size tractor trailer rig rather a medium size truck with a flatbed trailer that makes passing the test a breeze.. If you can drive a pickup/suburban with a 24 foot trailer and don't run over curbs you shouldn't have a problem..
License it as a RV and insurance is modest too. The sleeper should meet RV requirements and you aren't going to be doing this commercially are you?
A Semi wouldn't fit in the pits at most hillclimbs, which are based in campgrounds mostly.
I am towing a 24' flat nose trailer (about 4500 empty) with a 2003 3/4 ton 5.7L Hemi Dodge pickup and it's OK at best.
We are looking for a 3/4 to 1 ton diesel if we continue Spec Miata racing.
It's getting 7-8 and the brakes are so-so. Our trailer has a huge viewing platform on top which makes it feel like a double parachute in any sort of wind. It's super nice to watch a race up there!
You'll need to log in to post.
