Toyoda dealers don't care.

racerdave600 wrote: I do know a guy that pulled into the local Dodge dealer after a ball game with his son in an old pickup. His son wanted to see the Viper GTS in the showroom. A salesman came up to him and basically told him to leave. he grabbed another young salesman walking buy and paid cash for the Viper at full list on the spot just to piss off the rude salesman. The guy owns a tech company in town. That is true. You should never judge someone by looks, you never know.

Ok, I'll admit I was a mattress salesman for 6 months in college (needed spring break money) and I had an in with one of the big chains in town so I worked and there was basically 2 credos, chase the money and ignore those who want to lowball/haggle, or roll with it all. The former strategy was a favorite of the district sales manager (dude) who was a sleeze ball, the latter was the strategy of a store manager (woman). The district manager's stragegy made high margin money fast, but I'd say he would close less than 50% of the time, and it always seemed stressful and tiring for him as he would have to 'work' the individual(s). He also had alot of returns because people would get home, realize that they had overpaid for something they didn't want and bring it back (60 return policy). The store manger on the other hand had a very even keel and wouldn't 'hard sell' anyone, and basically let people buy what they wanted and would be fair on price, i.e. she'd come down to get the sale even if it was slightly below the standard profit margin, her take, money is money. Granted she had to work 6 days a week to equal the sales of the district manager, but her returns were low and her profit margin solid and consistent.

Guess who went to corporate and who stayed in the trenches...?

The individual dealership is generally at fault, not 'all of them'. The best salespeople know up front to NEVER 'pre qualify' a prospect.

A guy I used to work for owned a chain of 22 dealerships, either outright or in partnership. He kept a ratty old pickup and would drive unannounced to various dealerships in blue jeans, T shirt and 2 days worth of beard then park on the property and get out to wander around, just to see how he was treated.

He had a GREAT story: he did this one day and a young kid comes zipping up, asked how he could help. The boss indicated an interest in a certain car, the kid says 'I'm sure we can put you in this car today'. Boss decides to have some fun. He tells the kid he might have trouble getting financed, the kid asks why and the boss says he just got out of prison a few weeks earlier. The kid says 'I'm sure we can work around that' and offers to take him to the sales manager. By this time he's best buds with the boss, almost has an arm around his shoulders, etc and as they are walking to the showroom he says 'Can I ask what you were in prison for?' and the boss says 'Murder'. The kid came to a screeching halt, waked like three steps behind him all the way into the showroom.

I think everybody's had at least one of those "bad" experiences. Years ago, I was shopping for my first brand new car... had always bought used. Went to the local Nissan to check out the new Z. Was wearing shorts and a clean t-shirt, even had my hair pulled back in a tail and trimmed my beard, and went with my best friend... serious hottie in all respects.

Super large lot, guys were using carts to get everyone around... except moi. Mr. Douche had us walk all the way to the back of the lot, during the nice Florida Summer, then proceeded to explain how he left the keys back in the office. He disappeared on the horizon and never came back. We finally made it back to the show room, and then asked for the manager. Manager comes out, looks me up and down and then explains... "He has to make a living and is busy with other clients."

I asked my friend for her purse and pulled out a wad of cash. I explained to the manager that I would think that $10k as a deposit would have been sufficient, and that my bank had a branch right down the street. Didn't even phase him... gave him the 2 finger cub scout salute and left.

Did I happen to mention that I was on crutches and wearing a huge leg brace(from major reconstructive knee surgery), hence the shorts? And, did I happen to mention how, a week later, I drove to that dealership in my new(purchased elsewhere) car, just to show him what decent customer service would gotten him?

I despise dealerships... even when they're helpful they're still trying to steal your wallet. Ask me about the Mazda dealership who tried to get us to pay for a new oil pan after they had stripped the drain bolt on my wife's MPV. Tried to make me feel like they were doing me a favor by only trying to charge me their purchase price... bat rastards.

Mark

Local Ford dealership:

Me+Wife: "Hi, we'd like to look at something in a wagon, or maybe a minivan. We already have an SUV and don't like crossovers. We just looked at the Magnum you have, and it doesn't have the right kind of space for us."

Saleslady: "Ooh, how about an Escape?"

Me: "Um, no, like I said, we already have an SUV, don't want another."

Saleslady: "Well, have you looked at the Mercury Mariner?"

Me: "That's the exact same thing."

SL: "No, it's got..."

Me: "different badging, and a different grill. If you had a Fusion wagon, we'd buy that right now".

SL: "What about this Dodge Journey? It's got a lot of space"

Me: "That's a crossover, we're not really interested".

SL: "Let me introduce you to my sales manager..."

Wife: "Okay".

It's not that I had a less than sterling experience at a car dealer, it's that it was a Toyoda dealer. How can they afford to be picky in the least?

If I was the only purchase customer in 2 days I'd expect them to be falling all over me. Plus it really amazed me that Toyoda didn't offer ANY incentives when the car companies without the big problems are offering lots of them.

The Dodge dealer next door, who was very busy, plus it was 10 minutes before closing time still greeted me at the door (the sales manager no less because everyone else was busy). He stayed around till a salesman got loose and made sure I was taken care of. He also talked about the incentives while we were waiting.

And while a Toyota of yesteryear may very well have good resale value a new Toyoda that is part of the recall generation will forever be tainted just as Audi was. Audi's unintended acceleration almost put the company under in the U.S.

I will alway remember our local Honda dealer, Back when I was shopping for a new car I wanted to test drive the new civics. naturally I specified one with a manual transmission, they straight looked at me cross eyed apparently they didn't have one on the lot... they spent a good 10-15 min trying to convince me an automatic was "just as good"...

I actually had a good experience with the Mazda dealer I worked with when I got the speed6. I looked at the car and left, called back the next day and made an offer over the phone, it made for a super streamlined process it was great. there was none of the that well I got to go talk to my manager B.S. that you normally get when you lowball them...

I had the same experience years ago. The staff was friendly and accommodating but no negotiation on price. The car's do truly sell themselves, people get in the mindset they want a toyota, and that's it.

We ended up with an echo, which IMO was better than the comparable corolla, but we paid list.

It had a throttle cable and I miss it.

I would assume they are telling their dealer networks that their aggressive recall is enough to fix the problem and to not act differently to try to save face. Who knows. But I'm also sure it must be difficult to learn a new selling strategy overnight when your used to people lining up handing over money to buy your products.

Had the same experience while looking at tundras last year. everyone at toyota really had an "I am better than you" attitude.

More interesting was my experience at a VW dealership. I was out with a friend looking at the new Jetta diesel Wagons and the sales guy was going on about how they are better than the prius since you wouldn't have to be cut out with the jaws of life and that the radiation from the battery would kill you.

daytonaer wrote: I had the same experience years ago. The staff was friendly and accommodating but no negotiation on price. The car's do truly sell themselves, people get in the mindset they want a toyota, and that's it.

I have friends that had that experience at the local Toyota dealer. They went to another one, and were able to negotiate a better price.

I love Saturn and am sad to see them go, but 2 funny stories:

My father in law loves nothing more to haggle a sales person to death. No he wont haggle them on a stripped down coupe with AM/FM and no floormats, he usually will be looking at a turbo diesel duallie or a loaded sedan, so haggling I think is ok when the total tag creeps up high like that. Well, when Saturn was brand new, he wanted to get something fuel efficient and small so he could save for a business venture. He went into the dealer and at the time, they only offered the SL1 or whatever, and it had maybe 3 trim levels, but not really any "optional equipment" to speak of. He then proceeded to try to haggle them, and they made sure he was aware they didnt haggle, they had a standard pricing policy they never deviated from. He got so furious he nearly wrecked pulling out of the lot in a huff. He thought they were pulling his leg and just being douchey sales-slime. After a little research, he realized that really was their policy and went back and purchased a new white sedan.

FF about 10 years, and my wife and I are in the dealership looking at an Ion. The wife of course wanted a vanilla sedan with a slushbox and so on and whatnot, and I of course wanted the "quad coupe" supercharged redline. Well, obviously we went with the baby hauler and the redline remained just a twinkle in my eye. Anyway, while we were talking with the sales lady, I mentioned how I liked the suicide door design of the quad coupe (pillar-less 4 door with the rear doors hinged at the rear). SHe looked at me blankly and asked what a suicide door was! Im not sure how you can sell cars and not know relevant car lingo, but I commented kinda in a shocked tone how suicide doors are doors that dont hinge at the front. She corrected me saying that they werent suicide doors, its saturns innovative quad coupe design, nothing like it exists in the auto industry

we still bought the car, but seriously? double you tee eff?

In reply to carguy123:

I think the dealers are getting hammered by people just looking to kick them while they are down. You were probably just one more person trying to get a deal because they're hurt. I'm with you though, Toyota is screwed right now so they better start giving away cars.

gjz30075 wrote: This whole car salesman thing is still a sleaze ball game. They just don't learn. Thinking about it, I suppose I can extend this thinking to any salesman working on commission.

GJZ has it correctly. The abundance of hubris when working commission when selling cars will land the salesperson soundly in the 7th ring of hell.

Commission car sales = greed, plain and simple.

Eric G

Years ago I was looking at a new CRX SI and was going to trade in my 4 year old Alfa Spider. The Honda sales manager actually came up and asked me to get my Alfa off the lot that it was devaluing his other cars. Now keep in mind it was absolutely perfect, not a scratch anywhere and had a book value more than the CRX did new. Anyway, drove straight over to the then new Suzuki dealer (sold at the local Porsche place) and did a terrific trade for a new Suzuki Swift GTi and came away with cash. They sold my Alfa in ONE day. The new owner called and asked about it before he bought it.

***I still had 2 more Alfas at the time as you can never own just one. Just needed a new daily driver / autocrosser.

daytonaer wrote: The car's do truly sell themselves, people get in the mindset they want a toyota, and that's it.

My in-laws are of this mindset- one time my FIL was crowing about Toyota's greatness, and I commented that Toyota is like Apple Computer- no matter what they slap their name on, to some of their customers there simply is no Choice B. He has also been an Apple customer for 20 years. That's when the fight started.

I've been on both sides of the fence, as I sold Saturns in a former life, and I've also helped many friends buy cars at dealerships.

While Saturn generally had good customer service, it all depends on the General Sales Manager. If he/ she is a scumbag.....the salespeople will have to follow suit. If he is ethical, the sales staff will generally be as well. I had both good and bad while there. Used car sales at the Saturn dealership was no different than anywhere else. If I was buying a new car, I'd ask to speak directly to the GSM. If he/she is a scumbag I'd walk.

My worst dealership experience actually came at a Mazda dealer. After the test drive was over the salesguy got a cell phone call. Not only did he take the call, he got in the car (with us outside) and closed the doors so he could have some privacy. We could still hear him inside as he conducted a DRUG DEAL while on the phone! Amazing!

Oh, and not all commissioned sales people are greedy scum. It makes a lot more sense to be ethical, and honestly try to serve your clients. This leads to repeat business, and referrals. The smart sales guys look long term, not short term.

dimeadozen wrote: My in-laws are of this mindset- one time my FIL was crowing about Toyota's greatness, and I commented that Toyota is like Apple Computer- no matter what they slap their name on, to some of their customers there simply is no Choice B. He has also been an Apple customer for 20 years. That's when the fight started.

LOL!

Toyota hasn't done anything good since about 1989, I am surprised it has taken this long for the wall to come tumbling down.

Joe has it dead on about commissioned salespeople. You may short yourself on a few sales now, but when they come back for their next 10 cars, their kids cars, and all of their friends and family come to you FIRST, then you've made that slight loss back many times over.

SupraWes wrote: Toyota hasn't done anything good since about 1989, I am surprised it has taken this long for the wall to come tumbling down.

I'm paraphrasing here, but I seem to remember a famous quote from the 60s that went something like "you scould mismanage GM today and you wouldn't see the effects for 20 years". In the 80s GM was starting to circle the drain just as Toyota was becoming hugely successful. So figure their decline started back in the 90s.

On a related note I wonder if the reverse is true. That it will take 20 years for GM to be back near the top. How long ago did Ford get serious again?

carguy123 wrote: I'm looking for a PU and have been shopping all brands (the wife LOVES the Ridgeline except for $$$). I shopped Cheby, Dodge and Toyota this afternoon.

Here is your problem. It is a common misconception that sales jobs are low skill level.A skilled salesman has already figured out the missus want a Toyota. He just has to keep drinking coffee until you sign the papers.

I don't really know that this applies to your case, but if the missus really wants the Toyota, I guess picking out the color is all that is left to do! Resistance if futile.

She hasn't even seen a Toyota. I'm the advance scout and they have to first get by me.

The Dodge Sport was a very nice truck, but it wasn't worth $38,000.

I'm in the final throes of getting the Ford. $33,795 sticker with a $22,795 sales price.

I say throes cause even with a friend on the inside it's been layer after layer of sales people and now the financing. My banker said just tell them I'm approved, but Ford tied $1,000 rebate to me financing with Ford and on a 36 month term the savings to use my own lender is only a few hundred dollars so now I have to go thru Ford. The issue is that for 2 days they haven't returned my phone calls.

When you HAVE to use them they get around to you when they get around to you.

Junkyard_Dog wrote:

SupraWes wrote: Toyota hasn't done anything good since about 1989, I am surprised it has taken this long for the wall to come tumbling down.

On a related note I wonder if the reverse is true. That it will take 20 years for GM to be back near the top. How long ago did Ford get serious again?

Right about the time of tiregate.

SupraWes wrote: Toyota hasn't done anything good since about 1989

mtn wrote:

VanillaSky wrote: It's sad to see Saturn gone. That dealership experience was excellent.

I agree with this. All the Saturn dealerships I've been to have been excellent. Thats saying something--its hard to get serious attention as a 16-20 year old.

16-20 yr olds are the last people that should be buying a new car.

carguy123 wrote: I didn't see XREAS on anything, but it could have been there and I didn't get to see it. They really weren't all that interested in selling a vehicle which truly amazed me. You'd think they'd be falling down trying to convince anyone who came in that things weren't as they seemed, but they took a very passive approach with just the signs to acknowledge anything was wrong. The salemen used the same tactics and same lines as when things were good. They wanted to pretend nothing was happening. When Toyoda does start working on selling cars again instead of fixing problems they will have to really have a fire sale to get people's attention.

XREAS is only on the Sport Edition 4Runners (standard) and is optional on the SR5 and Limited.