Toyota 2000GT Replica??

Wow......... on one hand... if it were not for the replicas.. it is arguable that Cobras would be as popular as they are... and that the replica actually helped Shelby, Ford, and everyone involved.... if not directly in cash... indirectly in legend.

Now is there enough demand to build the 2000GT into a kit car??? You would have to overcome its principle short comings, kinda like Ford did with the GT from the original GT40

The original engine was only 150hp, and it was a straight 6. I'd design it to take multiple drivetrains... Allow people enough layouts that they can run whatever combination they would want too. If it was light enough a 3SGE BEAMS, a 6 speed, and 4.10 gearing might be lots of fun...

JohnRW1621 wrote: I would rather a tube framed kit of a Bugeye with gihugic flaresthat uses a single Miata as donor.

FTFY

In reply to oldeskewltoy:

I like that idea! Beams would make a great motor.

Ok gang, point taken. Maybe this is a bit of a stretch of an idea.

There's already a re-body/body kit available to turn a Miata into a 2000GT. The proportions aren't perfect, i'm sure, but it's a pretty passable impression.

oldeskewltoy wrote: Wow......... on one hand... if it were not for the replicas.. it is arguable that Cobras would be as popular as they are... and that the replica actually helped Shelby, Ford, and everyone involved.... if not directly in cash... indirectly in legend. Now is there enough demand to build the 2000GT into a kit car??? You would have to overcome its principle short comings, kinda like Ford did with the GT from the original GT40

I kinda see what you're saying, but also not so much...

The reason that the Cobra kit-cars have been so popular is because the "legend" was already there, and alot of people knew about it. Same with the Ford GT.

How many casual US "enthusiasts" with the cash to toss at a component-car will even know what a 2000gt is?

Swank Force One wrote: There's already a re-body/body kit available to turn a Miata into a 2000GT. The proportions aren't perfect, i'm sure, but it's a pretty passable impression.

The company is called Road Star Garage. They also have a replica based on a 240Z.

JFX001 wrote: The company is called Road Star Garage. They also have a replica based on a 240Z.

Roadster Garage in Japan?

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://roadstergarage.jp/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Droad%2Bstar%2Bgarage%26hl%3Den%26tbo%3Dd%26biw%3D1117%26bih%3D685&sa=X&ei=5moKUY2tH4yo8QT20ICQCQ&sqi=2&ved=0CDMQ7gEwAA

In reply to Ian F:

Well, that answers that. They make a solid looking coupe replica and if no one has deemed it financially worthwhile to import their kits I doubt there is much of a market for it.

I saw what I would assume was a replica 2000GT at the NAIAS this year. I say that because it was electric and I would find it hard to believe someone would cut an original for that.

In reply to singleslammer:

They're asking 8.8 million yen for the "Dragon Princess Coupe" (pictures show it to be VERY MUCH like the CP car in the first post) before taxes. That's just shy of $97,000. Lovely car, but at $100,000, I'm out.

JohnInKansas wrote: In reply to singleslammer: They're asking 8.8 million yen for the "Dragon Princess Coupe" (pictures show it to be VERY MUCH like the CP car in the first post) before taxes. That's just shy of $97,000. Lovely car, but at $100,000, I'm out.

That actually looks reasonable to me for what you get. The Cobra and even the GT40 are both very very simple cars when you come to look at the details. Mainly off the shelf easily accessible lights and trim, what little trim there is. The 2000gt is a stunningly beautiful car (coming from an Avid Toyota disliker (is that a word??) but look at all that intricate chrome trim, lights, windows etc etc that a Cobra doesn't have.

I also understand cars in Japan are staggeringly expensive to buy and own. A car like this, even more so, which probably is reflected in the JDM price. It's quite possible an export version would be significantly cheaper, if they decided to persue it.

Ian F wrote:

JFX001 wrote: The company is called Road Star Garage. They also have a replica based on a 240Z.

Roadster Garage in Japan? http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=ja&u=http://roadstergarage.jp/&prev=/search%3Fq%3Droad%2Bstar%2Bgarage%26hl%3Den%26tbo%3Dd%26biw%3D1117%26bih%3D685&sa=X&ei=5moKUY2tH4yo8QT20ICQCQ&sqi=2&ved=0CDMQ7gEwAA

Yes, it was listed as "Road Star" on a couple of pics.

singleslammer wrote: In reply to 4cylndrfury: Given the way that my experience with startups has gone, I shouldn't even try. However, by your plan, I would need something like 500k to even think about it. I don't believe that is necessary. I will need enough money to develop the molds (would use a vacuum system and plastic body) and source the parts to manufacture a working prototype. At that point, each car is built using the customer's down payment and parts are purchased as we go. As things progress then you start working on developing chassis in batches to reduce cost. There will be no employees and no warehouse (My basement is plenty big). It would be me and my co-founders running alone until we get to the point where we can justify someone else.

in fairness, my experience with startups says the same, and $500k was just about exactly the number I had in mind.

Also in fairness, I agree that there is the possibility to get started alone, in a basement, with some simple tools and very little in terms of cost of materials for experimentation. If your customers are simple folks looking for a budget friendly kit car they can have fun in, they may not care if you have a high end facility or a fancy office to sit down in.

But, if your kit is gonna carry a retail cost that keeps average joes on the outside looking in at CEOs and trust fund playboys who can afford your kit, the millionaires will often want to see some kind of operational quality control in place, a true production method being employed, a functional space devoted solely to production (that doesnt also include your families washer and dryer or your old weight bench), and a management structure in place so they know the $25k youre asking they lay down in advance for a car that yet doesnt exist isnt going to get squandered.

Just food for thought. I honestly would love to see this kit happen, but I just have heard soooo many stories that start off "Im gonna offer a kit...". 897436 forum members post how theyre interested and "would definitely buy one when youre ready to sell". But the story ends with 2 people actually buying the kit, one of which is the sellers brother in law, a jaded seller with a small fortune down the hole, and a garage full of plywood bucks and custom machined spindles that couldnt sell if they were life rafts on a sinking ship.

If you can get a good chassis made, and get a good body made, I'd agree with everyone else who said to make it accept a number of engines from the 4 cyl to the 2JZ to a blasphemous LSx to the Toyota/Lexus V8. That gives the buyer multiple choices for their budget. Use as much factory bolt on stuff as you can like brakes, rear end and suspension, front end and suspension, etc. Windshield and other glass should be sourced from a production car, lots of expense there to get DOT approved glass. 240-260 Z-Cars would probably be a good place to start. Try to minimize your "production" or fabrication to just the frame and body. Make all the other parts sourceable (if that's a word) from production cars. I'm sure you can team up with a local glass company for windshield and that kinda stuff. Wheels and tires are easy and ultimately up to the customer. I'd have like 2-3 choices. Also, limit your options for the customer to decide on. Simple gelcoat finishes in white or black or red as the only choices, stuff like that. Too many options confuse most buyers and stall out their purchase while they think about it.

Just my thoughts.

I was actually looking for something like this the other day as a matter of fact. I posted some pix up on my facebook and had a lot of my car buddies commenting on them and asking what the hell it was. So there is interest. If the kit can be sold at a reasonable price, then I'm sure you'll move a few. If you can get your costs down and make the kit a steal, I'm sure you'll sell more. But you know how that is...

In reply to Conquest351:

This might be one of those "we are going to build it with a Miata and if you want a different motor buy these mounts as well" thing. I think that would work well for the single donor issue and certainly help with cost. Hell the wheel bases between the two cars are only a few inches apart.

In reply to Conquest351:

This is the only reason factory 5 is still in existance.......its not because they are as nice as the originals, its because so many of the parts are being used as off the shelf or junkyard find parts.

The option to put the 8.8" IRS rear end in them is one huge leap for those. But I can tell you from driving replica's versus original shelby cobras, the originals are much nicer at the end of the day.

Singleslammer, building a proper tube chassis is the way to go, but designing it to accept miata suspension, rear end, erc parts as a "kit" is more sensible than reshelling the chassis.

4cylndrfury wrote: Just food for thought. I honestly would love to see this kit happen, but I just have heard soooo many stories that start off "Im gonna offer a kit...". 897436 forum members post how theyre interested and "would definitely buy one when youre ready to sell". But the story ends with 2 people actually buying the kit, one of which is the sellers brother in law, a jaded seller with a small fortune down the hole, and a garage full of plywood bucks and custom machined spindles that couldnt sell if they were life rafts on a sinking ship.

.... and all I tried to do was make a 6 speed fit a Corolla... albeit we have sold a few more than 2

As far as chassis, and potential donors... why not look to Low-Costs and see what works, for cheap there... then build it around that... no offense... this isn't likely to sell to high end millionaires.. at first... if it sells at all it will be here, and JNC, and other Toyota enthusiasts, or at the very least Japanese car enthusiasts

If this were to truly work...the body and chassis would have to be under $15,000, and if at all possible, under $10,000.

In reply to oldeskewltoy:

Well, I can tell you now that 10k isn't possible (unless I just tell you where to buy all of your suspension parts instead of getting them for you) because I am willing to bet the bodies will run at least 6-8k alone and another 5 for the chassis. 15 is a possibility though.

singleslammer wrote: In reply to oldeskewltoy: Well, I can tell you now that 10k isn't possible (unless I just tell you where to buy all of your suspension parts instead of getting them for you) because I am willing to bet the bodies will run at least 6-8k alone and another 5 for the chassis. 15 is a possibility though.

from memory... that is what the very first Cobra replica were... Lets see... if I remember correctly.. the first "kits" used Mustang II front suspension, and you had to try and find a Jaguar rear end...???? ... although some of the cheap kits did have soild axle options.... (could be wrong on this last bit)

Here's what you do... Offer the kit in stages.

Stage 1 is the basic chassis and body and interior pieces they can't source from other vehicles or buy from anyone but you.

Stage 2 has the suspension and stuff, but they still need to find the diff and wheels/tires.

Stage 3 would have all the stuff ready to go and be installed minus engine and transmission.

I agree that the $15k mark is the top of most kit's "affordable" price range. There seems to be some sort of magic in that number. If you can get the chassis and body without suspension out there for like $8k and then the stage 2 for $12k and stage 3 for $15k you're good to go.

Wouldn't sell.

A replica Ferrari 275 GTB would, but you know what happened when they made one of those - Italian lawyers got richer.

I like the idea (my Jamaican is in the same idiom) but I just don't see it happening.

singleslammer wrote: In reply to Conquest351: This might be one of those "we are going to build it with a Miata and if you want a different motor buy these mounts as well" thing. I think that would work well for the single donor issue and certainly help with cost. Hell the wheel bases between the two cars are only a few inches apart.

You don't want to mess around with mounts unless it's in the form of working out a deal with V8 Roadsters or something like that for V8 mounts.

The R&D time would be outrageous for not much payoff. If you're starting with a Miata as a donor, let the buyer figure out that stuff. You don't want to get sucked into that.

wspohn wrote: Wouldn't sell. A replica Ferrari 275 GTB would, but you know what happened when they made one of those - Italian lawyers got richer. I like the idea (my Jamaican is in the same idiom) but I just don't see it happening.

There's a 250 GTO "rebody" available for the Miata as well. Looks quite good in some pictures, utterly horrible in others. Wheel choice and offset seems to be quite important.